Transfer Window: Summer 2013
Moderator: Gnome
- Bury Me @ The Boleyn
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
Just so everyone's on the same page:
We still need help with the front line, however, it is impossible to get help on the front line unless we clear out a substantial amount of wages. That means removing a few squad players wherever there may be a surplus to requirements. It also means we might find it necessary to sell one of our more desirable assets (namely Tomkins, but to a lesser extent Vaz Te and Diarra). We will likely need to sell/loan multiple players to make up the wage difference.
As long as we're clear on all that, I want to point out some of the things I find worth noting:
-Selling Tomkins without replacing him with a competent 3rd choice CB is a dangerous, dangerous gamble. I understand that Joey O'B can cover along the back, but he's not a natural CB and it leaves us dangerously thin. Selling Tomkins likely means splitting the dosh between a 3rd CB and a 2nd ST.
-Selling both Vaz Te and Maiga to afford the wages of a 2nd striker does us little good. Particularly if that striker also has an injury history (like Ba's dodgy knee). We must keep one of Vaz Te or Maiga to be the 3rd option even if we bring in a #2. Cannot sell both.
-Selling Diarra thins both the CDM and CB roles. With an already thin back line, it could be dangerous to sell someone that can competently fill two of those positions. The thing to remember when selling a player is that it needs to be for the good of the squad. Diarra adds a layer of insurance at two positions where insurance is needed.
Just my .02
We still need help with the front line, however, it is impossible to get help on the front line unless we clear out a substantial amount of wages. That means removing a few squad players wherever there may be a surplus to requirements. It also means we might find it necessary to sell one of our more desirable assets (namely Tomkins, but to a lesser extent Vaz Te and Diarra). We will likely need to sell/loan multiple players to make up the wage difference.
As long as we're clear on all that, I want to point out some of the things I find worth noting:
-Selling Tomkins without replacing him with a competent 3rd choice CB is a dangerous, dangerous gamble. I understand that Joey O'B can cover along the back, but he's not a natural CB and it leaves us dangerously thin. Selling Tomkins likely means splitting the dosh between a 3rd CB and a 2nd ST.
-Selling both Vaz Te and Maiga to afford the wages of a 2nd striker does us little good. Particularly if that striker also has an injury history (like Ba's dodgy knee). We must keep one of Vaz Te or Maiga to be the 3rd option even if we bring in a #2. Cannot sell both.
-Selling Diarra thins both the CDM and CB roles. With an already thin back line, it could be dangerous to sell someone that can competently fill two of those positions. The thing to remember when selling a player is that it needs to be for the good of the squad. Diarra adds a layer of insurance at two positions where insurance is needed.
Just my .02
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
None of these things will happen.Bury Me @ The Boleyn wrote:
-Selling Tomkins without replacing him with a competent 3rd choice CB is a dangerous, dangerous gamble. I understand that Joey O'B can cover along the back, but he's not a natural CB and it leaves us dangerously thin. Selling Tomkins likely means splitting the dosh between a 3rd CB and a 2nd ST.
-Selling both Vaz Te and Maiga to afford the wages of a 2nd striker does us little good. Particularly if that striker also has an injury history (like Ba's dodgy knee). We must keep one of Vaz Te or Maiga to be the 3rd option even if we bring in a #2. Cannot sell both.
-Selling Diarra thins both the CDM and CB roles. With an already thin back line, it could be dangerous to sell someone that can competently fill two of those positions. The thing to remember when selling a player is that it needs to be for the good of the squad. Diarra adds a layer of insurance at two positions where insurance is needed.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
I hope not, but they've all been mentioned several times in this thread. This post was me kind of addressing all of those mentions at once.
Last edited by Up the Junction on Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Double quote removed.
Reason: Double quote removed.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
It's cause and effect though. If Tomkins was sold, it's because he is a saleable asset, and as a third choice centre-back could be cheaply replaced.Bury Me @ The Boleyn wrote:I hope not, but they've all been mentioned several times in this thread. This post was me kind of addressing all of those mentions at once.
Selling Vaz Te and Maiga and not replacing them both would leave us in a worse position than we are now.
If Diarra is sold, he will be replaced (possibly on loan) by a player who will take up less wages.
Allardyce is a belt and braces chap.
Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
If what's discussed on the KUMB transfer thread constitutes our club's policy then I am seriously worried for the direction of our club.Bury Me @ The Boleyn wrote:I hope not, but they've all been mentioned several times in this thread. This post was me kind of addressing all of those mentions at once.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
If we have done all this window's deals - and I accept there may be a surprise or two - and Maiga is back up for Carroll, my guess is that there'll be a degree of variation in the way we approach games with Maiga as opposed to Carroll. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we'll start playing tippy tappy Barca stuff. But it would be stupid to play Maiga as if he had Carroll's strengths. With the midfield we have there is more capacity to mix things up a bit more, simply because the options, and frankly skills levels, are higher than we came with into the beginning of last season
Anywy we'll soon find out, as we don't expect to see Carroll against Cardiff
Anywy we'll soon find out, as we don't expect to see Carroll against Cardiff
Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
Thanks for the info BF!
Quite glad we didn't go in for Remy. We don't need the negative media attention that he would have brought and I feel he may have disrupted the excellent team spirit we have here.
Quite glad we didn't go in for Remy. We don't need the negative media attention that he would have brought and I feel he may have disrupted the excellent team spirit we have here.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
Oh I agree completely. I was just trying to point out why the Daves and Sam had a more complicated job than many of the people on the board seem to give them credit for. Those saying 'Sell him, him and him for him!' are generally oversimplifying the situation.jenkins89 wrote: If what's discussed on the KUMB transfer thread constitutes our club's policy then I am seriously worried for the direction of our club.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
MS in the West wrote:If we have done all this window's deals - and I accept there may be a surprise or two - and Maiga is back up for Carroll, my guess is that there'll be a degree of variation in the way we approach games with Maiga as opposed to Carroll. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we'll start playing tippy tappy Barca stuff. But it would be stupid to play Maiga as if he had Carroll's strengths. With the midfield we have there is more capacity to mix things up a bit more, simply because the options, and frankly skills levels, are higher than we came with into the beginning of last season
Anywy we'll soon find out, as we don't expect to see Carroll against Cardiff
great point we now officially have a Plan B ..maybe we can use maiga's qualities instead of trying to get him to pretend to be AC lol will help us be less predictable.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
It runs until the end of the month, matecockneySparrow wrote:Forgive my ignorance on the transfer window basics but when does it actually close? Is it midnight prior to the first game or does it run until the end of the month?
Yours
BTW love this window so far and the way our little club is growing.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
My thoughts exactly, although in my case it's just opinionBrownFatwa wrote: I think I'm right in saying we havent used any of our loan capacity yet and that is significant I feel.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
BrownFatwa wrote: I think I'm right in saying we havent used any of our loan capacity yet and that is significant I feel.
The one thing that concerns me is that loans count against wages. According to Sully we have no wage room due to the FFP rules. Loans could be difficult this term unless we ship a few people out.the celestial insect wrote:My thoughts exactly, although in my case it's just opinion
If business is done for the window, I'm okay with that. If it isn't, the next step is relief on the wage packet.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
Maybe we'll see Morrison replace Nolan for the games with Maiga up-front...? Would certainly offer more of a foil for Maiga's style than El Capitan.MS in the West wrote:If we have done all this window's deals - and I accept there may be a surprise or two - and Maiga is back up for Carroll, my guess is that there'll be a degree of variation in the way we approach games with Maiga as opposed to Carroll. I'm not suggesting for one moment that we'll start playing tippy tappy Barca stuff. But it would be stupid to play Maiga as if he had Carroll's strengths. With the midfield we have there is more capacity to mix things up a bit more, simply because the options, and frankly skills levels, are higher than we came with into the beginning of last season
Anywy we'll soon find out, as we don't expect to see Carroll against Cardiff
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
I discussed that possibility with a friend just yesterday. We were talking about Ba at the time, though. If we were to somehow secure a loan/transfer for Ba, I wouldn't be at all surprised if we started Morrison whenever Ba was the ST. Ba isn't a traditional target man and I think Morrison offers more in terms of opportunities created on the floor. That little wrinkle could drive teams nuts-- they wouldn't know exactly how to prepare for us, as was the case last season.Pulls up Trees wrote:Maybe we'll see Morrison replace Nolan for the games with Maiga up-front...? Would certainly offer more of a foil for Maiga's style than El Capitan.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
I'm not sure if we are speculating or if the owners have actually said publicly that due to ffp we would need to sell before bringing in anyone but if they have, that seems a rather strange strategy to me. Surely anyone with any interest in any of our players will feel they can low ball us under that impression. I just think our owners and Brady are too smart for that to be the case.
I'm sure before the window closes another striker will be coming in.
COYI
I'm sure before the window closes another striker will be coming in.
COYI
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
We've played a whole pre-season without Carroll and achieved some reasonable results so hopefully there is an 'absence of Carroll' plan which plays to Maiga's (or Vaz Te) strengths.
Like others I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of new arrivals - and a couple of departures as well before 'the door slams shut'
Like others I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple of new arrivals - and a couple of departures as well before 'the door slams shut'
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
Two points in the 'who do we let go debate'
Firstly, let's not forget that Sam changes at least two midfielders a game. In noble, nolan, joey and diame we have midfielders with form for not lasting 90 on a regular basis at the intensity level sam sets
Secondly, it's only worth letting players go - who have a known level of performance - if we can bring in better for the same or less cost
So think we can forget the a simple approach of showing the starting 11 to then decide we can clear out everyone else to buy a striker
I see diarra and taylor as on wages that would enable us to bring in another player in another - potentially more critical position. Suspect we're actively trying to move on
I see maiga and vaz te probably being on wages that are not game changers and in order to turn their departure into something useful then we need to exit 2 or 3 players in order to pay for an incoming player of good enough standard to improve us wage wise
I see collison on low wages and having little to no transfer value. As a result of that and sam's propensity to swap midfielders i see him and morrison as the two current best value bench options to bring on at 65/70 minutes most games. Will we get better quality for the same cost? I doubt we're actively trying to sell unless the player wants to go but suspect we're open to offers and would prefer to sell diarra and/or taylor based on what sale of either of those two enables us to do versus a collison exit
Tomkins is probably also an 'open to offers' but for different reasons. Namely his wages for a back up are rumoured quite high and we can sell at a decent price and probably replace with same quality for same price or cheaper (arguable whether the right thing long term)
Bench of: adrian, o'brien, tomkins, cole, morrison, collison, x striker - covers sams standard game plan for most matches and provides cover for injuries all over pitch (a consideration but in reality an event far less frequent than the first point). Finally it probably has the right average cost for the alleged cost base we are working to
All IMO and all changes if we bring in first team loan players in anywhere other than up front
Firstly, let's not forget that Sam changes at least two midfielders a game. In noble, nolan, joey and diame we have midfielders with form for not lasting 90 on a regular basis at the intensity level sam sets
Secondly, it's only worth letting players go - who have a known level of performance - if we can bring in better for the same or less cost
So think we can forget the a simple approach of showing the starting 11 to then decide we can clear out everyone else to buy a striker
I see diarra and taylor as on wages that would enable us to bring in another player in another - potentially more critical position. Suspect we're actively trying to move on
I see maiga and vaz te probably being on wages that are not game changers and in order to turn their departure into something useful then we need to exit 2 or 3 players in order to pay for an incoming player of good enough standard to improve us wage wise
I see collison on low wages and having little to no transfer value. As a result of that and sam's propensity to swap midfielders i see him and morrison as the two current best value bench options to bring on at 65/70 minutes most games. Will we get better quality for the same cost? I doubt we're actively trying to sell unless the player wants to go but suspect we're open to offers and would prefer to sell diarra and/or taylor based on what sale of either of those two enables us to do versus a collison exit
Tomkins is probably also an 'open to offers' but for different reasons. Namely his wages for a back up are rumoured quite high and we can sell at a decent price and probably replace with same quality for same price or cheaper (arguable whether the right thing long term)
Bench of: adrian, o'brien, tomkins, cole, morrison, collison, x striker - covers sams standard game plan for most matches and provides cover for injuries all over pitch (a consideration but in reality an event far less frequent than the first point). Finally it probably has the right average cost for the alleged cost base we are working to
All IMO and all changes if we bring in first team loan players in anywhere other than up front
Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
Nolan is no lone striker/target man......this is definitely not an option.
It will be hard to find a stiker who ticks all of the below criteria:
- Low wages
- Willing to be Carroll's understudy
- Better than Maiga/Vaz Te
- A big lump
- Prolific
- Likely to take Carroll's place longterm
I'll take what we have for now and hope for a loan striker who can tick a few of the above criteria.
It will be hard to find a stiker who ticks all of the below criteria:
- Low wages
- Willing to be Carroll's understudy
- Better than Maiga/Vaz Te
- A big lump
- Prolific
- Likely to take Carroll's place longterm
I'll take what we have for now and hope for a loan striker who can tick a few of the above criteria.
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Re: Summer Transfer thread - 2013/2014
I give you Carlton 'Overchuffed' ColeTopbre_22 wrote:Nolan is no lone striker/target man......this is definitely not an option.
It will be hard to find a stiker who ticks all of the below criteria:
- Low wages
- Willing to be Carroll's understudy
- Better than Maiga/Vaz Te
- A big lump
- Prolific
- Likely to take Carroll's place longterm
I'll take what we have for now and hope for a loan striker who can tick a few of the above criteria.