West Ham Utd 0-5 Manchester City (10/08/19)

[jhammers]

We were crying out for a DM to play next to Rice.

I and many others were banging on about it all transfer window. Like last season we will continue to get overrun in midfield. Pretty worrying Pellegrini hadn't seen that

[waynepin]

teams that do well against man city tend to be hard working aggressive sides that make lots of challenges all over, close them down and work as a unit, we look like two five a side teams one five attack one five defend, with attackers not defending, we are made for man city the way we play, especially at home, really looking forward to brighton to see if we change our team and how we compete

[prophet:marginal]

If Haller had been in Lanzini's position yesterday, Ederson would have saved Hernandez's effort, but then picked the ball out of his own net (Manu's heading is hardly the centrepiece of his game). Instead, we were 3-0 down minutes later.

If the scoreline had stayed at that, we would have still been unhappy, of course, but not quite as concerned as we are today.

I cannot quite understand what's happened with Fabianski in either of the last 2 goals. The clearance looked as if he was wearing flipflops and the effort to save from Sterling, for the 5th, was totally bizarre.

[hammer1975]

Opinions and all that PM but I was surprised the Man City defender didn’t get to that rebound first. Ederson did well to get back up and then get across to save it. There was no pace on the ball at that point unfortunately. If Chicharito had connected less well it would have been a goal too - as it went straight at Ederson.

XG for the game was broadly 1-3 suggests we underachieved at both ends of the pitch.

[Wilko1304]

Lovely screen shot of Cresswell with how many yards start on Walker ?

He can't run off before Walker runs, because that's awful defending on Mahrez.

And Walker has so much sprinting time as a head start on Cresswell. He's already faster anyway, but then has a 10 yard sprint -start. Masuaku wouldn't have kept up either, it would have been too hard to go from 0 to Walker.

[prophet:marginal]

Opinions and all that PM but I was surprised the Man City defender didn’t get to that rebound first. Ederson did well to get back up and then get across to save it. There was no pace on the ball at that point unfortunately. If Chicharito had connected less well it would have been a goal too - as it went straight at Ederson.

XG for the game was broadly 1-3 suggests we underachieved at both ends of the pitch.

I wasn't meaning to imply that we deserved to get one back on the 70th minute; more a question of temporary fine margins, I suppose. If the defender had had to challenge Haller, our player would still have got his header away, is my guess. And we would still have lost, but not so heavily, maybe.

I genuinely don't understand XG, I have to say.

[Gsbgsb]

Remarkable misreading. He can't run off before Walker runs, because that's awful defending on Mahrez.

And Walker has so much sprinting time as a head start on Cresswell. He's already faster anyway, but then has a 10 yard sprint -start. Masuaku wouldn't have kept up either, it would have been too hard to go from 0 to Walker.

Exactly, the difference is that Mahrez would have at least been under pressure to make the pass more difficult had that been us in possession. The full back looks bad as he is the player beaten but he is beaten because of what happens earlier in the play. That said it was one of the few occasions first half that City looked really threatening as opposed to having the ball but not really creating chances (the criticism most make of us).

We had at least 2 crossing opportunities as well first half, the Anderson one where no-one got into the box and later when as opposed to attacking the near post Haller stepped back towards the penalty spot, either could have been better executed moves.

Second half they stepped up, caught us cold with Fornals not understanding the intensity of the game he was stepping into and took control as really only they and Liverpool can.

[old fart]

Hope Cresswell realises soon that if he keeps backpedalling half-heartedly while they're sprinting around him they'll be by in a flash. Otherwise we'll see a lot more of that this season.

And this year's scapegoat is..............?

[dodger]

And Walker has so much sprinting time as a head start on Cresswell. He's already faster anyway, but then has a 10 yard sprint -start. Masuaku wouldn't have kept up either, it would have been too hard to go from 0 to Walker.

And you know this how exactly?

There is a big difference between being way behind the crossing player, allowing them lots of time to measure up their cross, and just behind and putting them under pressure with a challenge at least. I reckon Masuaku could have at least managed the latter.

Cresswell was a bit unlucky yesterday in that he could say individually he didn’t do anything terribly, but he just isn’t good enough at anything to warrant a place in the side. He’s slow, weak, often positioned poorly, can’t take players on, rarely tackles or wins the ball back, and he clearly can’t captain effectively either.

Even the one thing he has usually managed to keep doing - putting in decent crosses - has deteriorated over the last year or two.

I’m not sure I’d play him even in cup games. Masuaku or Johnson all the way for me provided both are fit.

[Wilko1304]

And Walker has so much sprinting time as a head start on Cresswell. He's already faster anyway, but then has a 10 yard sprint -start. Masuaku wouldn't have kept up either, it would have been too hard to go from 0 to Walker.

And you know this how exactly?

There is a big difference between being way behind the crossing player, allowing them lots of time to measure up their cross, and just behind and putting them under pressure with a challenge at least. I reckon Masuaku could have at least managed the latter.

Cresswell was a bit unlucky yesterday in that he could say individually he didn’t do anything terribly, but he just isn’t good enough at anything to warrant a place in the side. He’s slow, weak, often positioned poorly, can’t take players on, rarely tackles or wins the ball back, and he clearly can’t captain effectively either.

Even the one thing he has usually managed to keep doing - putting in decent crosses - has deteriorated over the last year or two.

I’m not sure I’d play him even in cup games. Masuaku or Johnson all the way for me provided both are fit.

I know that I am offering an opinion on a forum, but I would justify it with the fact that Walker has a good 5-10 yard start and that Masuaku would have had to be able to get to that speed straight away, including on the turn, so I would be pretty confident that he isn't getting there based on that and the short space to run into.

Considering that the most difficult thing for Walker to do there was keep the ball in and get it a cross (what loads of time did he have to measure the cross?) the "pressure" you believe Masuaku would have got (and you know this how exactly? etc etc) is nowhere near as important and likely ineffective.

On that goal, I have no idea why Balbuena's marking of Jesus doesn't give Diop any hint to move over. Cresswell is also left 2 on 1, a very hard position to be in, and Walker has started running before Antonio moves towards Mahrez, thus limiting what Cresswell can do.

I'd play Masuaku ahead of him, but his ability is now way over-exaggerated on this forum due to not being Cresswell and because he's fast. I don't think any of our full backs are good enough, excluding Johnson, but in this system I think we probably have to play Mas and Fred because the full backs are so exposed and asked to do so much that their pace is the most important attribute in all the ones are current full backs have.

[Blow Bubbles]

And this year's scapegoat is..............?

Cress needn’t worry too much... Noble will be back next week

[prophet:marginal]

...in a two with Rice, as we win away at Brighton.

[Colours never run]

If Pellegrini is continue to be lazy and not going to take things seriously against the top teams I wont be coming along.

Behave. It's mainly what he did last season bar the rare f*** up. We even competed well in both games against City last season, not to mention beating Arsenal, Man Utd, Spurs and drawing against Chelsea and Liverpool.

Sure, he ****ed up badly being far too open with the formation he went with but let's not pretend he doesn't take the big games against the top teams seriously.

[Blow Bubbles]

...in a two with Rice, as we win away at Brighton.

I fully expect so, but I’m sure plenty here and elsewhere will find some reason to knock Noble!

[Georgee Paris]

More annoyed / disappointed today than yesterday. Fully expect defeat at Brighton now as well.

[hammer1975]

I think both points about the first goal have some truth - there wasn’t one player solely responsible.

I do think Antonio should have shown more urgency shutting down Mahrez - his heatmap show he didn’t cover much on the left, Pellegrini’s sub at half time imply that he wasn’t happy about something and the 5 minute spell after their first goal saw Man City pouring down that side too.

Cresswell was poor for the goal - and throughout the game. He didn’t need to reach the same speed as Walker per se but he did need to have enough speed to marshall Walker off the pitch. His body shape is wrong, he’s too far away from Diop and he should have backed up a bit to start moving more defensively given that Walker was already accelerating in his eyeline. He half goes to cut out the pass but it’s not on his favoured side so that also slows down his acceleration. There’s no attempt to physically put off Walker - the guy roughed up our players on that side and none of them liked it (bar Antonio).

Diop also could have done with moving across and dropping a little to cover if Cresswell has been beaten. He was already higher than Balbuena and Fredericks. There was a massive gap between full back and centre back on that side all game long - you can see that in the other goals too.

I’d play Masuaku in the next game - not because I rate him but because he’d have struggled to do worse in this game.

Left back a weakness, who’d have thunk it.

[Jon]

Given previous 4 and 5 nil home drubbings against City I would have preferred some pragmatism in selection.

Arthur not in the squad so Snod ahead of Cress on the left. Sanchez alongside Rice, Antonio on the right and Anderson OR Lanzini in behind Haller. At least make it hard for them.

Playing Wilshere, Lanzini and Anderson was too ambitious for more liking. Save that for a home game against far lesser opponents.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

I love Declan Rice. A rolls Royce of a player but I do sometimes wonder that in the formation and style we play a 'worse player' DM would be more effective at actually doing the job of protecting the back four.

By that I mean a more basic footballer who is just a big, athletic, powerful brute.

If we have four tippy tappy technically proficient but quite weak players in front of him, then Rice (on his own) may be a bit of a rolls Royce option when a ford transit is what is required

This is no way a call to sell Rice in any way. Just a thought.

Talking of Rice. I did notice first half he ventured quite far forward to press on numerous occasions leaving Wilshire tas the deepest midfielder. Looked like a deliberate ploy

[Georgee Paris]

Can people stop saying these results wouldn’t happen under Moyes and allardyce - they did.

[Ozza]

Yeah it seems as Pellers wants Jack as a deep lying player