VAR - yes or no ?

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Universidad-de-Chile » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:05 am

"Jaein"... as you say in German...

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by sendô » Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:49 am

So is VAR on or off at the moment?

I'm confused.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by S-H » Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:00 pm

How can it go from calling every decision rightly or wrongly in the first game week, to now calling next to nothing?

In the interests of fairness, surely you can't chop and change what it can or can't be used for as the season progresses, it'll open up a can or worm surely?

After Rice was penalised for encroaching for man City's penalty, I have made a point of watching other penalties in other games this season, and some players have clearly encroached before the ball is kicked, yet no retakes have been awarded? How is that fair? What if a decision that was given by VAR at the start of the season is now not even being reviewed, what if a team went down on the back of one of these inconsistent VAR reviews?

Just scrap it.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:11 pm

S-H wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:00 pm
..........................

After Rice was penalised for encroaching for man City's penalty, I have made a point of watching other penalties in other games this season, and some players have clearly encroached before the ball is kicked, yet no retakes have been awarded? How is that fair?
......................

Just scrap it.
I think Rice was pinged because he got to Fab's save first and cleared the ball, something he may well not have managed had he not encroached.

As for your second point :thup:

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:54 pm

penalty for Dortmund. Ter Stegen about 1-2 yards off his line, makes a great save.

VAR used/not used ? ignored ? missed it ?

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:58 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:54 pm
penalty for Dortmund. Ter Stegen about 1-2 yards off his line, makes a great save.

VAR used/not used ? ignored ? missed it ?
In the Premier League VAR is not used for goalkeeper encroachment.Only for outfield players being in the box, and then only if they impact the game i.e score or clear a rebound

No idea for the Champions League tbf

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:06 pm

so only for WC or other major events ?

so keepers can be 3 yards OFF their line but if an outfield player is 6 inches inside the box, it's a retake or whatever ?

rhetorical I know.

I'll have to look for the CL VAR rules....

just found this a per pro how it was (not) applied to Adrian in the Super Cup

Roberto Rosetti, UEFA's Chief Refereeing Officer, stated before the match that goalkeepers will only be penalised for coming off their line if the error is 'clear and obvious'.

Could they not spot the daylight between Adrian's boots and the line then?

The same levels of strictness and attention to detail need to be applied consistently, otherwise there will be continuous uproar.

While most football fans agree that the new penalty laws are ridiculous, the fact they're not being enforced properly is arguably even more irritating.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by stu1 » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:18 pm

The fact VAR lead to Chelsea being awarded a penalty tonight was utterly ridiculous. The Valencia players arm wasn’t in an unnatural position and it didn’t moved at from its position after the header.

Joke decision, glad Barkley missed.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:18 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:06 pm
so only for WC or other major events ?

so keepers can be 3 yards OFF their line but if an outfield player is 6 inches inside the box, it's a retake or whatever ?

rhetorical I know.

All I know is that after the farcical scenes at Women's world cup the Premier League made the decision to remove keeper encroachment from VAR remit

Outfield players are subject to VAR, but only if they are in the box and then influence the game ie. Defensive player clears rebound or attacking player scores from rebound

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Cuenca 'ammer » Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:34 pm

similar then to if the ball brushes the defenders arm like it did when City scored against Spurs (then disallowed) it is not going to be penalised as a penalty. only if a goal is scored.

no wonder no one understands VAR

I still don't know if there is a "rule" as to when an a/r raises his/her flag. I have seen them raise it for close call like when Valencia scored on Sunday against Barca. even in real time it was tight, ball in play on the edge of the 18.

VAR overruled the a/r who raised his flag for offside.

then other times player 35+ yards from goal flag goes up.

then like the Haller non decision against Norwich, does VAR ref say, "I think you might want to look at that again" and the on-field bloke says "no I don't." or does the bloke on-field say "what do you think, penalty ?" and the VAR bloke goes "nah."

we don't seem to have any real clear indication as to which way these things go.

all again rhetorical.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by westham,eggyandchips » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:36 am

"VAR - yes or no?"

Not even a discussion now. It isn't working, and it'll never work.

Still too many grey areas, not enough clarity, still errors by on-field officials, lack of communication with supporters inside the stadium.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by hammerman11 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:41 am

VAR is a joke at present and they need to publish in all football rogrammes what it will look at.
I would like the following looked at
all goals scored
all penalties given
penalty decisions not given including possible dives. book the divers.
any handball in the area
any red card decisions
any second yellow decisions
any bad tackles/perceived bad tackles where no action taken

If they did this then it would help reduce the divers and cheats I feel after an initial bedding in period.

not sure what they do now apart from goals scored are checked.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:09 am

S-H wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:00 pm
How can it go from calling every decision rightly or wrongly in the first game week, to now calling next to nothing?

In the interests of fairness, surely you can't chop and change what it can or can't be used for as the season progresses, it'll open up a can or worm surely?

After Rice was penalised for encroaching for man City's penalty, I have made a point of watching other penalties in other games this season, and some players have clearly encroached before the ball is kicked, yet no retakes have been awarded? How is that fair? What if a decision that was given by VAR at the start of the season is now not even being reviewed, what if a team went down on the back of one of these inconsistent VAR reviews?

Just scrap it.
Exactly this - it's like some teams were punished , Manchester City included [ they had a goal ruled out for that slight ball to arm incident ] - I would say they had a case to put to the FA .

' Have You Been Affected By VAR In an Adverse Way ? ' - call TOMOS & TOMOS , we'll get your 3 points back .

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Pocket Pardew » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:20 am

A conspiracy theorist would suggest that the big teams have thrown their toys out of the pram due to the infield decisions becoming more equalised across the league. They would then suggest that the Premier League top brass have panicked and agreed to scale back the use of VAR in order to appease them. They would then suggest that the Premier League, needing to save their league darlings and ensure the big money teams stay top of the pile, that Referees will be instructed to make use of VAR when the big boys need it most.

Mark my words, the balance will shift back to the big teams getting favourable decisions by the refs using VAR in their favour. Its already begun.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:23 am

Pocket Pardew wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:20 am
A conspiracy theorist would suggest that the big teams have thrown their toys out of the pram due to the infield decisions becoming more equalised across the league. They would then suggest that the Premier League top brass have panicked and agreed to scale back the use of VAR in order to appease them. They would then suggest that the Premier League, needing to save their league darlings and ensure the big money teams stay top of the pile, that Referees will be instructed to make use of VAR when the big boys need it most.

Mark my words, the balance will shift back to the big teams getting favourable decisions by the refs using VAR in their favour. Its already begun.
I really hope you're wrong but you're right .

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:26 am

I would say that both Managers and players would need to be informed whether VAR was in use for each match they participate in , just to avoid , you know , any ' dispute ' which may arise later on - you CAN'T use VAR whenever you see fit , it has to be consistent across the board .

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by goa127 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:31 pm

One thing that seems to have happened in England is that the VAR ref doesn't like to overrule the on-field ref at all. Presumably because they don't want to be overruled when they are reffing on the pitch. This is why international matches are different the var ref may well be a fella you don't know from a different country. Hence in England Var is basically becoming an offside back-up tool.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by AnyOldIron » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:34 pm

I may be missing something, but *if we have to have VAR at all) I really don't see why VAR reviews are not managed like most other sports - Each manager can initiate referrals on contentious decisions until they reach the limit (say 1 per half ? ) on unsuccessful reviews
Surely that's got to be fairer, more consistent & less confusing, than the muddled, random "use it when officals feel like it" system that we have at present.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by jastons » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:14 pm

If VAR is to be used then it needs to be used consistently, and it just isn't. The season is only a month old and already the use of VAR has totally changed. At the start of the season we had a raft of goals disallowed because players were offside by the smallest of margins. Now, I couldn't tell you the last time I heard or saw a goal being disallowed or even reviewed.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by goa127 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:13 am

Apparently every goal is automatically reviewed. Perhaps bar is working by default. Players are aware a goal will be reviewed so don't cheat so much

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