VAR - yes or no ?

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Gsbgsb
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Gsbgsb » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:21 am

goa127 wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:13 am
Apparently every goal is automatically reviewed. Perhaps bar is working by default. Players are aware a goal will be reviewed so don't cheat so much
Exactly this, VAR reviews every goal for offside, no offside goals means no evidence of the use of VAR but it is checking.

For me the biggest issue is the subjective as opposed to objective decisions, it is where the real controversy still lies.

For the first season at least I would have restricted to questions of fact not opinion and it seems that it means one improper goal has been scored this year, the handball equaliser by Newcastle v Watford (daft rule on this is not VAR’s fault but it should have spotted it), but a number of offside ones disallowed. To my mind that is a system working on the factual issues.

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Albie Beck
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Albie Beck » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:25 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:21 am
To my mind that is a system working on the factual issues.
What about the two factual pens we haven't been given?

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Wilko1304 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:19 am

The Norwich one was an aberration, although I blame the on-field official more than anyone. I presume the other was Fredericks against Villa? I don't think it was clear and obvious enough as an error - it came down to a situation like "umpire's call" in cricket.

VAR, to me, is only really underlining that many of the games rules/laws are iffy. It is still run by humans, so is still on human error, but I would bet the biggest error this year will be the Haller pen against Norwich. The Grealish thing with Palace was all on the referee.

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aaronhammer
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by aaronhammer » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:22 pm

VAR = Yes

VAR with PGMOL = No

Clear penalty not given for Bournemouth and not overturned by VAR - or the referee asked to check it on the monitor.

If they’re just going to back up their mates, there is no point in it.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Pocket Pardew » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:00 pm

Pocket Pardew wrote:
Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:20 am
A conspiracy theorist would suggest that the big teams have thrown their toys out of the pram due to the infield decisions becoming more equalised across the league. They would then suggest that the Premier League top brass have panicked and agreed to scale back the use of VAR in order to appease them. They would then suggest that the Premier League, needing to save their league darlings and ensure the big money teams stay top of the pile, that Referees will be instructed to make use of VAR when the big boys need it most.

Mark my words, the balance will shift back to the big teams getting favourable decisions by the refs using VAR in their favour. Its already begun.

I'll stand by my post earlier in this thread. having just watched the outrageous obvious penalty that Arsenal should have conceded today, this is clearly happening. How the ref said no and then for the VAR team to confirm it is a disgrace. If Villa were 3:2 up and this happened in their box, then 100% would this have been given as a penalty by the ref and the VAR team would have confirmed it.

Big team bias is still in play and the VAR teams are no different in their selection of who gets the positive decisions against those who don't. (well except for Spuds :D )

bowltorious
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by bowltorious » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:07 pm

Also I thought you were supposed to not be near the wall this season? Arsenal's last goal there were Arsenal players in the wall. VAR has been largely terrible so far, over 10 decisions that have been baffling already,

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:12 pm

I'm genuinely coming to the conclusion that referees have agreed amongst themselves not to overturn/undermine each other.

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OFT
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by OFT » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:58 pm

Just seen the Villa /Arsenal game and the 'penalty' thing was a disgrace.

Goals ruled out in games offside by a hairs breadth but blatant handballs not overturned. The bloody ref should have given it anyway, Jeebus,

In the style of Jim Royale... Var me arse.

What is the feckin point?

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Sauce! » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:29 am

Just watched the Arsenal Villa game and apparently VAR was used to check a 2nd yellow for Maitland-Niles.

Apart from the fact that M-N got the ball and Taylor should have seen red for studs up on M-N’s shin, I thought VAR wasn’t used for yellow cards re: Arthur and Mike Dean from last Monday.

As with refereeing pre-VAR, it’s the lack of consistency that pisses fans off the most.

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James P
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by James P » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:08 am

I believe they were checking whether it should be a second yellow or a straight red.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Sauce! » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:15 am

James P wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:08 am
I believe they were checking whether it should be a second yellow or a straight red.
That makes the ‘decision’ not to review Arthur’s 2nd offence even more ridiculous.

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James P
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by James P » Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:18 am

Not really. Arthur’s second yellow was never a straight red. Yesterday the yellow wasn’t being reviewed. Only should it be a red or not.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by fjthegrey » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:33 am

Pleasantly inconspicuous yesterday. The less it's involved the better for the game.

The Spurs decision on Saturday though for the Son offside.....

I don't see how nitpicking to that microscopic degree makes the game better. If upon review that goal stood, Leicester fans would not be complaining.

They need to review decisions without those superimposed lines. If you cannot discern if a player was offside by just the still image, without any zooming in and overlaying grid, you cannot give those decisions.

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Mega Ron
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Mega Ron » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:52 am

I'm cool with it if it ****'s Tottenham over. Or Leicester. Or anyone but us really.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Sauce! » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:11 pm

James P wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:18 am
Not really. Arthur’s second yellow was never a straight red. Yesterday the yellow wasn’t being reviewed. Only should it be a red or not.
Yes really. The point is that if VAR can be used to distinguish between a 2nd yellow or straight red why can’t it be used to distinguish between a 2nd yellow/straight red/no foul/simulation?

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James P
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by James P » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:47 pm

Sauce! wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:11 pm
Yes really. The point is that if VAR can be used to distinguish between a 2nd yellow or straight red why can’t it be used to distinguish between a 2nd yellow/straight red/no foul/simulation?
Because it’s been decided it won’t be used on yellows. Can you imagine if every yellow got reviewed. We’d be there all day.

Once the ref had decided he was going to book both Arthur and M-N, they were both going off no matter what. VAR couldn’t change that. In the second case, VAR was reviewing whether or not a straight red was due. Arthur’s wasn’t reviewed because it was obviously not a straight red.

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Estuary
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Estuary » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:49 pm

So yesterday Chelsea had a goal chalked off for an offside that happened way back in the build up to a goal by their right back. If Mount was offside he was offside but here's the thing, if Liverpool had won the ball back gone up the other end and scored would that have been hauled back for the "off side"?

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:02 pm

Estuary wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:49 pm
So yesterday Chelsea had a goal chalked off for an offside that happened way back in the build up to a goal by their right back. If Mount was offside he was offside but here's the thing, if Liverpool had won the ball back gone up the other end and scored would that have been hauled back for the "off side"?
No
If Chelsea hadn't have scored that offside for Mount wouldn't have been checked. The game would have just continued as normal

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Sauce!
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Sauce! » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:51 pm

James P wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:47 pm
Because it’s been decided it won’t be used on yellows. Can you imagine if every yellow got reviewed. We’d be there all day.

Once the ref had decided he was going to book both Arthur and M-N, they were both going off no matter what. VAR couldn’t change that. In the second case, VAR was reviewing whether or not a straight red was due. Arthur’s wasn’t reviewed because it was obviously not a straight red.
"Because it's been decided" -doesn't make it right imho, although with Mike Dean a day might not be long enough. A compromise would to just review a 2nd yellow or borderline red.

Once the ref had decided - the phrase that pays. VAR is supposed to iron out clear & obvious errors and the 2nd yellows in both Arthur's and M-N's cases fit that description - I would go as far as to say not even fouls - in both cases the ref got it badly wrong.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by vietnammer » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:13 pm

fjthegrey wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:33 am
The Spurs decision on Saturday though for the Son offside.....

I don't see how nitpicking to that microscopic degree makes the game better.
I swear this VAR is going to sub-atomic eventually. "A nano-particle from the end of an arm-hair was detected to be offside at the moment the ball was released"
Tottenham have appealed, citing evidence that there was a burst of cosmic radiation passing through the Walkers stadium at that point which could have been the actual origin of the particle and further argued that "Koreans, as a rule, aren't very hairy'

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