VAR - yes or no ?

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Estuary
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Estuary » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:01 am

claretchris wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:31 am
Apparently:

How does the VAR decide which frame to use?
The first point of contact of the passing act is key, not the point of release. The Hawk-eye operative will select three frames for the VAR, who will choose the one that best represents that first point. From this frame, the 3D imaging is activated.
that completely contradicts the "clear and obvious error" point to VAR. A digital camera runs at 24 or 25 frames a second, lets give it the benefit of the doubt and divide the second by the lesser number, that gives us 4.16 th of a second per frame, take three of these time frames you arrive at 12.49 of a second, so a little over a tenth of second is used in arriving at the conclusion, how in gods name is that clear or obvious?
The play back of the decision looks decisive, but given the time frame and the human aspect of the frames taken it cannot be 100% infallible, the human eye just isn't good enough, and the kit used certainly isn't going to be sharp enough to say with the level of certainty needed, and it is obviously not clear or obvious enough for the VAR people to effectively over rule the ref, which doesn't happen in other sports where they call for revues rather than have them imposed on them. Clear and obvious was the Marne dive, and the foul on the Leicester forward in the box, those were clear to the naked eye let alone the plumbs sitting in Middlesex, so what is the point of of VAR? I can't see one in its current guise.

No, for me what's happening here is an attempt to be relevant which the gullible authorities have bought in to.

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claretchris
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by claretchris » Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:54 am

Estuary wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:01 am
that completely contradicts the "clear and obvious error" point to VAR. A digital camera runs at 24 or 25 frames a second, lets give it the benefit of the doubt and divide the second by the lesser number, that gives us 4.16 th of a second per frame, take three of these time frames you arrive at 12.49 of a second, so a little over a tenth of second is used in arriving at the conclusion, how in gods name is that clear or obvious?
The play back of the decision looks decisive, but given the time frame and the human aspect of the frames taken it cannot be 100% infallible, the human eye just isn't good enough, and the kit used certainly isn't going to be sharp enough to say with the level of certainty needed, and it is obviously not clear or obvious enough for the VAR people to effectively over rule the ref, which doesn't happen in other sports where they call for revues rather than have them imposed on them. Clear and obvious was the Marne dive, and the foul on the Leicester forward in the box, those were clear to the naked eye let alone the plumbs sitting in Middlesex, so what is the point of of VAR? I can't see one in its current guise.

No, for me what's happening here is an attempt to be relevant which the gullible authorities have bought in to.
It should be kept at goal line decisions (for which they use high-speed cameras set up for that purpose alone). I'm yet to be convinced that you can even accurately calculate 3d figures from a 2d image...

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thejackhammer
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by thejackhammer » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:14 pm

Video technology should be part of the game, the game is worth too much money, and the stakes are too high for referees to make the amount of errors they are making.

I agree that having two calls a game that refresh if you made the right call is the way forward.

I also think they need to change the offside rule as it's so convoluted and open to interpretation with the phases of play and frame by frame pausing.

I'd say if the ball is played forward and you are in an offside position regardless of your proximity to the ball, you're offside.

If the offside decision is different in two side by side frames, ie. A knee Cap, arm pit or eyelash, advantage to the attacking team.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Harry Hound » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:21 pm

There are plenty of "clear and obvious" errors where VAR is a benefit but it should be a tool to assist referees in making their decisions and in keeping them honest and not used as it currently is where very tight calls are being over ruled. The VAR video replays should also be shown in the ground just like they are on TV to keep the supporters involved and let them know whats going on.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by fjthegrey » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:30 pm

As previously stated, if the naked eye cannot determine whether the attacking player was offside or not upon viewing the still picture, then it should not be used to overturn decisions. It's too much to be superimposing lines over a still image to work out the millimeters.

How long before we get the ultra edge equivalent assessing whether there was 'contact' on a players shin pad prior to them going down in the box?

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Phil S
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Phil S » Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:48 pm

It's a no from me

It's not used correctly and as a match-going fan it's ruining "the moment"

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by frankiemac » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:02 pm

if it gets the important decisions right, its a no brainer

why the **** they are testing this thing in the prem before fully assessing it i dont know...the prem should not be a testing ground, it should have been implemented after they had ironed out all of the contentious bits

my main beef is the inconsistency, and the insistence that it should be used on one thing, but not another...ie, arthurs sending off at villa...the villa player dived, and as it was for a second yellow, var couldnt be used to see if it was a foul or not...utter crap...its a decision that changed the game, and so it should have been eligible

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by S-H » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:04 pm

The camera angles they use, to draw their lines from the attacker/defenders foot/knee/arm/bollock hair is ridiculous, and cannot draw an accurate line in terms of perspective.

It's a load of old pish.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by frankiemac » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:08 pm

S-H wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:04 pm
The camera angles they use, to draw their lines from the attacker/defenders foot/knee/arm/bollock hair is ridiculous, and cannot draw an accurate line in terms of perspective.

It's a load of old pish.
first time id seen that on saturday

clear goal wasnt it...if youre offside by a gnats cock, you arent offside in my book...

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S-H
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by S-H » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:13 pm

Indeed, and if it is going to take them 3+ minutes to come to that conclusion, then just go with the on field decision.

They are literally splitting hairs, and for what? Stopping the game, slowing the momentum, sucking the joy out of every goal, just to be right by the letter of the law, to the nearest millimetre..

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by davids cross » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:15 pm

Anyone of us who has played football at any level, be it the highest or the lowest knows that is all about the moment the ball hits the net.

It's that moment that means anything and everything. It's the culmination of the whole process of playing football. It's more about being in that moment than almost any sport I can think of.

We take one look to the linesman and a glancing look to the referee as we are celebrarting just to check they are wandering back to the half way line.

That explosion , that daft moment the ball rattles the net. That is football...........that's why i watch it.

Goals now are celebrated with a half hearted nod of the head and a raised single finger .......not wanting to anticipate the goal is actually a goal.

Then the rulers, the compass, the protracters and the spirit level get pulled out to finally define the outcome of this once great sport.

It's utter & total bollox.........moment lost. I'll happily accept the terrible decisions and go back to where we were.

This ridiculous over analysis of football.... like it's a bloody science.............it's not, it's about instant passion and gratification, and absolute joy of one single moment.


But VAR has made football a horrible optimism sapper. Something I'm falling out of love with very quickly.

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warp
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by warp » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:58 pm

S-H wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:13 pm
Indeed, and if it is going to take them 3+ minutes to come to that conclusion, then just go with the on field decision.
clear and obvious!


LeonRivers wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:26 am
Because there is contact it cannot be a dive.
you absolute ****ing clown :lol:

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Johnny Byrne's Boots
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:00 pm

LeonRivers wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:03 am
There was contact.
So what?

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OFT
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by OFT » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:17 pm

LeonRivers wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:03 am
There was contact.
* sighs *

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by bristolhammerfc » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:46 pm

LeonRivers wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:26 am
Because there is contact it cannot be a dive. The very fact that it was not a dive is why the goal was not overruled. If it was a dive, I am sure it would have been overturned.
Nonsense. Jamie Vardy regularly initiates contact to enable him to dive. Its been a big part of his game.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by LeonRivers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:08 pm

westham,eggyandchips wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:05 am
So ANY contact inside the box is now a penalty then?
No. You are changing my words. Any contact means it’s not a dive. The contact in this particular incident means it is a foul. His standing leg was hooked preventing him from moving forward. It is a quite obvious foul and anyone suggesting otherwise has an agenda. I hate everything about Liverpool. I don’t need to let it cloud my judgement though. A foul is a foul.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by LeonRivers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:10 pm

bristolhammerfc wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:46 pm
Nonsense. Jamie Vardy regularly initiates contact to enable him to dive. Its been a big part of his game.
That’s different. The contact in that instance is BY Vardy ON the opposing player. That’s why he gets booked for it.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by LeonRivers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:12 pm

warp wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:58 pm
you absolute ****ing clown :lol:
Please explain the difference between ‘going down easily’ and ‘a dive’.

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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by warp » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:12 pm

LeonRivers wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:08 pm
No. You are changing my words. Any contact means it’s not a dive. The contact in this particular incident means it is a foul. His standing leg was hooked preventing him from moving forward. It is a quite obvious foul and anyone suggesting otherwise has an agenda. I hate everything about Liverpool. I don’t need to let it cloud my judgement though. A foul is a foul.
i have no idea about the incident in question, nor do i care.
the bit in bold is just idiotic though.


LeonRivers wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:12 pm
Please explain the difference between ‘going down easily’ and ‘a dive’.
if only this was the snug...
Last edited by warp on Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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LeonRivers
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Re: VAR - yes or no ?

Post by LeonRivers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:13 pm

warp wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:12 pm
i have no idea about the incident in question, nor do i care.
the bit in bold is just idiotic though.
Then I look forward to your reply to my question even more.

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