Who Next? The odds

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Crouchend_Hammer
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:39 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:36 pm
I do not get this myth that you cannot be talented yet also disciplined and work hard as well. City, Liverpool, Leicester are all examples of teams of talented players who also work their socks off. Sheffield United currently and Burnley teams of less talented players who achieve because of their work ethic etc whereas Arsenal are talents who think doing the hard yards is below them.

Manchester City have achieved the success they have due to the workrate of their flair players - DeBruyne's workrate is insane, as is Sterling

And take someone like SAdio Mane for example. you don't see him jogging back

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rciron
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by rciron » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:46 pm

BondsoBob wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:59 pm
Once again people are looking at the past through rose tinted glasses. We were f@@@@@g awful under BFS at times. The 'work rate' was not much different to now in my view.
:thup:

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hammer1975
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:48 pm

Presumably Hughton will take one look at how they treated Moyes and ask for some assurances? My recollection of Hughton’s teams playing style was BFS-lite. I like him as a guy - but feel like we need to avoid managers who will no doubt be ‘route one football’ chased out of the club.

Dyche’s teams play better football than he’s given credit for imo - two strong strikers with plenty of movement and decent balls in from open play. Howe’s teams play decent football but with both managers you get a lot of modern ‘tactics’ with it - time wasting, tactical fouling, fake injuries etc.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by wizzo_66 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:51 pm

I've heard this evening on very good authority that Howe is interested.

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Ozza
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Ozza » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:52 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:39 pm
Manchester City have achieved the success they have due to the workrate of their flair players - DeBruyne's workrate is insane, as is Sterling

And take someone like SAdio Mane for example. you don't see him jogging back
And yet the problem now, is the same problem under every manager under these owners

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Ozza
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Ozza » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:53 pm

wizzo_66 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:51 pm
I've heard this evening on very good authority that Howe is interested.
I bet he is, bearing in mind he's out of contract in 2020.

I expect him to be "interested" in every job going whilst he's in contract negotiations

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hammer1975
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by hammer1975 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:54 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:39 pm
Manchester City have achieved the success they have due to the workrate of their flair players - DeBruyne's workrate is insane, as is Sterling

And take someone like SAdio Mane for example. you don't see him jogging back
Agree. The big difference is that the whole team works hard and presses in unison for both Man City and Liverpool. If you press inconsistently then teams play around you.

For example - Snodgrass has been a breath of fresh air recently with his effort and workrate......however, in the last few games he has repeatedly found himself stuck high up the pitch after pressing largely alone and being passed around.... leaving a great big hole behind him that the opposition then exploited. What appears to us fans as a decent piece of effort has probably resulted in our midfield actually becoming more porous in a perverse way.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Chimera » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:54 pm

This lot generally go for tried and tested, even at Birmingham it was the same. Bilic being the notable exception, although wasn't he third choice at the time?

Regardless of who comes in, they will be backed first season, have diminished funds 2nd season and this is when the underhand things appear in the media. By the third season it will become clear that the three year contract is over.... and repeat.
Last edited by Chimera on Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by jastons » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:55 pm

hammer1975 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:48 pm
Dyche’s teams play better football than he’s given credit for imo - two strong strikers with plenty of movement and decent balls in from open play. Howe’s teams play decent football but with both managers you get a lot of modern ‘tactics’ with it - time wasting, tactical fouling, fake injuries etc.
Modern 'tactics' are exactly what we need. They are part of the reason that we are so easy to beat. Dyche isn't the messiah (just a very naughty boy) but does anyone think he would let Haller get away with his current lack of form? Not a chance. He is getting much more out of 'lesser' players than Pellegrini.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by bristolhammerfc » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:55 pm

If its Hughton or Dyche then I would rather stick with Pellers.

Football under Hughton at Newcastle and Brighton was pedestrian and light up front so more of the same.

Dyche is better but its not an ambitious signing. We are still mathematically close to the top of the table and we COULD get out of this.

If we are going to twist then I would rather a young progressive Manager rather than a tried a tested same old.

I can imagine our parasites going for Southgate.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by HammerAl » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:55 pm

It’s probably easier to work harder and run back more if you usually have 70-80% of possession every game!

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Universidad-de-Chile » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:58 pm

There are better than Howe out there...


As the stats show, he has behind him already the half of the games Benitez and Pelle has both now in their total careers and nothing shows he can get any better... so why to take the gamble???


And I do not get the point to asses someone whos on charge now...

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Brown Sauce » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:00 pm

Part of the reason they have more possession is because they bust their arse trying to get the ball back ASAP.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Ozza » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:03 pm

Brown Sauce wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:00 pm
Part of the reason they have more possession is because they bust their arse trying to get the ball back ASAP.
So what's your view about how every manager we've had under this lot, NEVER achieving that?

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Graza » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:25 pm

Ozza wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:25 pm
Graza, you are right to a degree, although I've seen the fan base at this club, get bored of pragmatic, protect the point managers, turn on them and want something different.
Don't get me wrong I was at the point of jacking in my season ticket for the last year at the old girl if BFS had stayed. The football, the nauseating contempt he had for the fans, etc. Mostly the football though. He had run his course. I don't want to see that again. The point I was trying to make was that if they got a manager who could keep them up on a shoestring they would try and give them half a shoestring. If they could/would/wanted to be more expansive if they got the money or not. The question would be if the fans would go for the owners or the manager in that scenario where they believed a manager had more in their locker but not enough in the coffers.

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Graza » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:30 pm

hammer1975 wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:54 pm
Agree. The big difference is that the whole team works hard and presses in unison for both Man City and Liverpool. If you press inconsistently then teams play around you.

For example - Snodgrass has been a breath of fresh air recently with his effort and workrate......however, in the last few games he has repeatedly found himself stuck high up the pitch after pressing largely alone and being passed around.... leaving a great big hole behind him that the opposition then exploited. What appears to us fans as a decent piece of effort has probably resulted in our midfield actually becoming more porous in a perverse way.
:thup:

Absolutely true. No point having one person playing like a dog in a park if everyone else is still just watching. Another thing Shearer picked up on on MOTD (much as I loathe him) was Noble having a go at Haller having lost out on a ball on the halfway line (just before the first goal) and that he was right to do so - the ball to him was crap, short, wide and underhit but he didn't put the shift in to try and get there.

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Ozza
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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Ozza » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:32 pm

Ive come to the view that the manager is totally irrelevant, they will pay over the top for a safe pair of hands, and decide on the style based on the current pleb view (do we want pragmatic or expansive), it matters not, what does matter is how long the lie can continue.

Looking at this place, id say forever

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Brown Sauce » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:56 pm

So what's your view about how every manager we've had under this lot, NEVER achieving that?
[/quote]

“Counter pressing” is still a fairly new thing in this country.
Bilic preferred to sit back and hit on the counter. Worked well for one season.
Big Sam & Moyes wouldn’t press high up the pitch.

MP, his Man City team didn’t do it like Peps Man City do, so why should we be surprised that his West Ham team doesn’t?

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Ozza » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:01 pm

Brown Sauce wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:56 pm
So what's your view about how every manager we've had under this lot, NEVER achieving that?
“Counter pressing” is still a fairly new thing in this country.
Bilic preferred to sit back and hit on the counter. Worked well for one season.
Big Sam & Moyes wouldn’t press high up the pitch.

MP, his Man City team didn’t do it like Peps Man City do, so why should we be surprised that his West Ham team doesn’t?
[/quote]

Pressing football isn't a new thing, it's just been rebranded, BS and Moyes didn't press because it opened up gaps and their game was about 2 tight banks of four with space down the flanks.

Our previous managers issues certainly aren't about their tactical decision making

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Re: Who Next? The odds

Post by Brown Sauce » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:08 pm

No-one in this country pressed so high up the pitch and in such numbers until Klopp, Pep & Pochettino.

It’s not for every manager & isn’t easy to execute.
I don’t think we’ve had a manager who believes in it...... yet.

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