Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

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Longaz
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Longaz » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:22 pm

Ozza wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:48 pm
Which bit wasn’t the harsh? The point that he hadn’t played as well for 12 months (when he has) or the suggestion that he’s in tune with the owners and deliberately downs tools against a struggling manager?
Both points

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Danny's Dyer Acting
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:25 pm

flysohigh wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:45 pm
His position is so key to the team it somewhat explains why our form is inconsistent. He runs the game against the lower clubs but gets found out against the top clubs. He can be MOM one week and not at the races the next. If he was consistent I believe it would have a big impact on the team as a whole.
I'd say that's a bit overly simple. He's fine against more static/technical midfields hence his performances against ManU and Chelsea already this season and against a knackered Bournemouth this week.

It's the teams that have proper box to box players in there up against him where he gets exposed and puts Rice under more pressure. Hence why Moyes desperately needs to find a way to hide that weakness before we play Liverpool if we don't want to meekly ship 4 goals again,

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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by taffhammer » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:40 pm

At our level he's a great player who's getting past his prime so against a midfield that counters by moving the ball quick he's caught out. Against mid table or Spurs ,who he hates and digs deep , he's clearly good enough. So if he's not good enough its because we need to buy better players for the next level and we all know whos to blame for that.

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Stevey
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Stevey » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:48 pm

Estuary wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:22 am
Jordan Henderson Captains the current runaway league leaders, European and World Champions and last night played in a midfield that included James Milner. Noble, IMO is a better "footballer" than both of these lads. Danny Drinkwater won the league with Leicester, he's better than him.
As a club we hugely undervalue players who don't have athletic ability alongside skill and we almost always think the other mans grass is greener to that end I think the fact that Mark has stayed at West Ham counts against how we perceive him as a player.
And to put to bed the point, we had offers for him more than once.
Henderson is debatable enough but I can't imagine anybody without their claret & blue shades on would agree that Noble is a better footballer than Milner.

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Estuary
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Estuary » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:17 pm

Stevey wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:48 pm
Henderson is debatable enough but I can't imagine anybody without their claret & blue shades on would agree that Noble is a better footballer than Milner.
I was making the example of athletes verses footballers Stevey. Milner was an outstanding school boy athlete, at all distances between 100m to cross country, Henderson is also a very physical footballer, IMO Mark is a better technical player but lacks their levels of energy, pace and range of distance.

Longaz
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Longaz » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:51 pm

Henderson is incredibly underrated imo. To say Noble is a better footballer than the current Champions League winning captain is some statement. Surely a top manager at a top club would have noticed this talent at some stage.

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Stevey
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Stevey » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:53 pm

Estuary wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:17 pm
I was making the example of athletes verses footballers Stevey. Milner was an outstanding school boy athlete, at all distances between 100m to cross country, Henderson is also a very physical footballer, IMO Mark is a better technical player but lacks their levels of energy, pace and range of distance.
And I'd disagree that Noble is better than Milner technically. He hasn't played for one Premier League winning side and about to do the same for another at 33 just by being an athlete. Same for his 60+ International appearances.

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Aztec Hammer
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Aztec Hammer » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:58 pm

Henderson and Milner are not just better athletes than Noble. They are better footballers.

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Smonnie
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Smonnie » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:19 pm

Those who claim not to understand what Noble brings to the team should spend a game or two specifically watching just him.

He's not an all-action box-to-box midfielder, because he hasn't got the stamina. We know that, and that's ok.

He does an enormous amount of glamorous grunt work. He retains and recycles possession, drops into space, plugs holes left when other players stride forward, and directs other players to do the same.

When he doesn't play, we massively lack leadership in the centre of the park, and we leave gaps that the opposition can exploit.

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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by denzel » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:22 pm

Milner has always been superb technically. Henderson is one of the best passers in the country.

Let's not forget that both of them originally played as attacking midfielders/wingers.

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Boooogers!
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Boooogers! » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:58 pm

I've been vocally critcal of Noble recently but was chuffed to see him turn it on against Boringmouth - definily an motm performance.

That being said, saying he's better than Henderson and Milner after one good performance in 3 months is taking the pish somewhat

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pezza20
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by pezza20 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:16 pm

Which bit wasn’t the harsh? The point that he hadn’t played as well for 12 months (when he has) or the suggestion that he’s in tune with the owners and deliberately downs tools against a struggling manager?
[/quote]

Oz - please read my post again, I said 8 games, not 12 months.

I also think someone that disrupts a manager's training session to make a point that he doesn't like the methods detracts from the captain's role he is meant to play - it completely destroyed the relationship between manager and the team.

I also did not say he downed tools, I was merely saying he is mainly poor at the end of a manager's tenor yet miraculously pulls out all the stops when a new manager arrives, just an observation. It's up to others to determine whether he downs tools or not ....

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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by hammerman11 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 5:27 pm

noble has never been better than Henderson or milner. madness to even compare them. the scouse two are winners and operate at a far superior level every game than our nobes.

IF we sign the younger CM players we need then he can take his rightful place on the subs bench. he has a role to play just not as a starter.
make rice or ogbonna captain
we need to upgrade on noble and others to have a chance in this league
noble 32 zaba 34 sanchez 34 Snodgrass 32 are not getting better and would not feature in most teams starting 11. zaba and sanchez would not be in the squads but we have to have them as we have underfunded midfield for years.

time for GSB to address the central midfield area and at least make us competitive.

we bossed a truly awful Bournemouth team. lets see how we get on against sheff united and everton let alone Leicester Liverpool and man city !

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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Cellar-door » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:23 pm

Noble is just a limited player at this point. It doesn't mean he hasn't been good in the past, and it doesn't mean he can't have a role at the club. He has been and he can. The problem is that we have no other options.

Noble struggles with pace, and he struggles with a strong pressing side. These get worse when he's even a bit fatigued.

Now if he were part of a rotation... no problem, bring him in against the Bournemouths of the league, slower sides who don't have the ability to really press a midfield hard. And he'd be even better for being fairly rested. We saw that this week, where he was coming off more rest than most, against a side that wasn't going to run past him, and let him have space to play without too much pressure. His performance was excellent.

The current season so far though... we've had to play him almost every match, so he tires, and we play him against sides he just doesn't have the tools to beat. This is the Wolves, Palace, Spurs type sides, where he can't get anything going against the press, falls into making dangerous sideways and back passes, gets strolled by with ease and the MF falls apart.

Noble seems to draw out extremes. Because he's the homegrown captain some people think he can do no wrong, and that in turn makes his detractors (not totally unjustified) dig in harder and be even more critical, so his strongest supporters think it's unfair criticism (some of it usually is), so he gets even more effusive praise and his errors and flaws (which are growing more numerous as he ages) are denied and excused... and the cycle continues with even harsher critique etc. etc. etc.

Noble is exactly the kind of player you would like to have as your 3rd best CM, so he can play in some matches and sit for others. He's miscast in the role of lead CM at this point and it is doing him and the club no favors. If we bring in 2 young CM with the legs to cover ground, and more ability to break a press, Noble will be a valuable rotation player, and the club will see much better performances

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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Clacton-ammer » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:19 pm

Feel for Nobes, he is fallen into that bracket where our owners promised us a world class stadium & team and Nobes is getting some of the fall out for that.

If we would have stayed at our home and our owners had not peppered us with WC this & that then a lot of his detractors would not be on here.

We are still, as we have always been, a pretty average team with some highs & lows along the way. Nobes fits us perfectly when you just look at us in that light, as soon as we think we should be pushing top 4/6 then Nobes will always struggle to be in that team as honestly, he isn't good enough for a top 6 side, and in truth I don't think he ever has been.

In the summer of 2018 I'm pretty sure I said when the recruitment was going on that Nobes will have a huge role to play to for us, not as starting every game, but someone to bed the new players in as captain, and see some games out for as a sub, and starting the games against teams that suit his playing style. He has been done by yet more poor transfer windows, that's not his fault.

He still has a lot to offer us as what he is good at it, he is very good at, but not from starting every game, it's actually not fair on him.

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Puff Daddy
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Puff Daddy » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:07 am

Why is it, we never receive any bids for him ?

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jastons
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by jastons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:25 am

Puff Daddy wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:07 am
Why is it, we never receive any bids for him ?
Because he isn't interested in moving? The majority of transfers are agent driven.

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ageing hammer
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by ageing hammer » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:49 am

jastons wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:25 am
Because he isn't interested in moving? The majority of transfers are agent driven.
He is getting slower alright

Longaz
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by Longaz » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:01 pm

jastons wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:25 am
Because he isn't interested in moving? The majority of transfers are agent driven.
Or he was never interested in moving because there was no bids.

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jastons
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Re: Mark Noble - West Ham Legend

Post by jastons » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:27 pm

Yeah, I'm sure that's what it is :phew:

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