Brown Sauce wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:26 pm
How is just a loan more attractive to Benfica than a loan with obligation to buy?
Not sure we’ve cracked this negotiation lark.
Depend totally on the triggers for the obligation and who controls them and the price of the obligation.
Leave the trigger in the hands of the buying club and the “obligation” can quickly become worthless if the player does not meet expectations (not that he does not play well but not well enough to justify the fee that will have to be paid eg Fernandes plays like he is a £35m player going forward not a £55m one) and the buying club decide that they will avoid triggering it. In that case there is little or no difference between “just a loan” and a “loan with an obligation to buy” save it might damage the player (and perhaps his long term value) more if there is an obligation.
Set the price too low and the selling club risks losing an asset for well below market value.
jacko wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:37 pm
I just don't see how Joe Allen changes things for us. We need a dynamic midfielder. We need some pace. He isn't any of that. He's a bog standard midfielder whose best days are gone. two or three seasons ago it might have been a reasonable signing. Now, it would be a poor one.
It's a good point Jacko and I would agree if we had a few better players to choose from at prices we can afford. If we find one or two then that would be great but as usual we may well end up with knee jerk purchases. I reckon Allen is over rated but better than nothing and a decent fit. We definately need pace but next season he'll have the time to build, Moyes is plugging holes now.
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Last edited by Hamburger on Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Let’s say you’re Benfica and you’re not happy with the terms of the obligation to buy, why would you be more likely to agree to just a loan?
You’ve got a £40m asset on your hands.
If West Ham weren’t happy (price is too high), then Benfica are hardly likely to agree to just a loan.
Westbourne Bill wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:32 pm
Allen doesnt represent much of a of gamble.Massive PL and international experience with none of the potential issues of buying unproven players from abroad. Palace and Burnley arent afraid of signing proven PL players and they're doing ok. Two and a half seasons may all we get out of him but thats probably more than Noble will last. He also keeps possession well...for which our back four might be grateful.
Totally agree and would add Newcastle to that and along with your aforementioned Palace and Burnley all three destroyed our CM with players many on here would dismiss as not being good enough!!
we have a good player lined up and now it seems we don't want him so it looks like the dads army reserves will be rocking up in the form of
injured Randolph, allen and old man giroud combined age 96 years. that will sort us west ham .
if it turns out to be just these 3 and no young legs we are down !
It seems unfortunate that the only midfielders in the world appropriate to consider for us this window are Joe Allen (a near 30 year old who hasn’t stood out in the championship for a season and a half), as Sander Berge (an impressive young player in the Belgian league who would be a risk to step up to the PnL) and Gedson Fernandes (a young player with huge potential but has struggled to get games in the Portuguese league and, again, has no experience of English football).
Who knew that there was such a limited pool of options eh....anyone would think we could do with some more scouts or something.
Brown Sauce wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:43 pm
Let’s say you’re Benfica and you’re not happy with the terms of the obligation to buy, why would you be more likely to agree to just a loan?
You’ve got a £40m asset on your hands.
If West Ham weren’t happy (price is too high), then Benfica are hardly likely to agree to just a loan.
Cos the bloke wants to leave. You can keep him against his will but he ain't giving you his best, winding down his contract till he can leave for nothing.
Put him in the shop window for a while and let him prove he's worth the money, then someone might bid it.
Not really sure I agree with him not being a gamble. Any signing we make is a gamble to a certain extent. He is an ageing player in the Championship. Signing someone who is almost 30 on a 3-4 year contract means we can't spend the fee elsewhere and he will earn very good money. To me that's a gamble in itself, and a bad one.
People just dont seem to grasp the reality of the state we are in 16th with some very tough games yet to play.
Lets say we keep getting overrun centrally and go down, everyone will scream why didnt we get some legs in jan.
Why on earth bring in a clone of what we already have in midfield how is that going to improve us?
Plus we'll have another 30+ player stuck on the books that no one will take off our hands.
Moyes himself said he wants to follow the example of a club like Leipzig by getting in younger players.
S-H wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:55 pm
It suits all parties, as far as I'm concerned.
Just frustrating that if we have a genuine talent on our hands, we could be left in a situation whereby we get him to adapt, just for him to sign for another club...
Would be good to have an option, but no obligation...
Crossd_Hammrs wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:31 pm
How does that work then? I thought he would get a percentage of the transfer fee?
ballantine wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:50 pm
Smaller transfer fee might mean bigger sign-on fee, of which the agent will get a massively higher percentage.
Is that true, though, do agents have clauses that say they'll recieve a higher percentage if there's no transfer fee?
And surely an out of contract signing on fee wouldn't come close to the GBP33m transfer fee we reportedly proposed?
EDIT
I'm being genuinely inquisitive btw, not argumentative.
Last edited by Crossd_Hammrs on Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I think more importantly he's a young player with potential. He's got good pedigree, so from that point of view I'd like to bring young players in for the future and build a strong young team, but also I have to be very wary of having players who are ready now."
