Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

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Believer
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by Believer » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:58 pm

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:49 am
So we need top 6 players as back ups as well?

Fab
Cresswell
f***'s
Diop
Ogbonnna
Rice

Top 10 back 6? I would think it probably is, the difference makers we pay through the nose for need to step up and stop hiding.
We'll need to agree to disagree on this one as I don't think Cresswell and Zabaleta are top 10 players anymore and Rice would we wasted in a 3 man defence. I'd suggest that Zabaleta and Cresswell are perfectly adequate back-up but not first choice anymore.

goa127
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by goa127 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:18 pm

This money league is very misleading. It refers to income per year but doesn't consider other factors. I was reading yesterday how Everton lost something like £70m last year, a hole which had to be plugged by the owners. They reckon they need European football asap to avoid falling foul of FFP. Spurs income increased significantly after their move but have now incurred a massive £694m (don't know how I remembered the amount) debt, which of course hugely adds to their costs. These two clubs are both taking massive punts but at different levels. TBH if I wanted to back one I think it'd be Spurs, they need to stay in with the elite to make it work, but I think that's easier to do than make the leap that everton are trying with the spectre of trying to fund a new stadium still looming. West Ham of course will stumble along as normal

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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:57 pm

Believer wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:58 pm
We'll need to agree to disagree on this one as I don't think Cresswell and Zabaleta are top 10 players anymore and Rice would we wasted in a 3 man defence. I'd suggest that Zabaleta and Cresswell are perfectly adequate back-up but not first choice anymore.
I haven't mentioned zabaleta. Rice is a DM.

You seem to agree that 5 of that back 6 are good enough which is fair enough. My issue is that the supposed 'make something happen' players aren't doing their job and most certainly aren't taking much responsibility.

Rozzop
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by Rozzop » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:01 pm

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:49 am
So we need top 6 players as back ups as well?

Fab
Cresswell
f***'s
Diop
Ogbonnna
Rice

Top 10 back 6? I would think it probably is, the difference makers we pay through the nose for need to step up and stop hiding.
Nowhere near top 10 quality

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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:20 pm

Rozzop wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:01 pm
Nowhere near top 10 quality
If you rotate the fullbacks with (many would say worse) Zab and Masuaka then that group played an awful lot of games for a team that finished 10th.

goa127
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by goa127 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:58 pm

goa127 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:18 pm
This money league is very misleading. It refers to income per year but doesn't consider other factors. I was reading yesterday how Everton lost something like £70m last year, a hole which had to be plugged by the owners. They reckon they need European football asap to avoid falling foul of FFP. Spurs income increased significantly after their move but have now incurred a massive £694m (don't know how I remembered the amount) debt, which of course hugely adds to their costs. These two clubs are both taking massive punts but at different levels. TBH if I wanted to back one I think it'd be Spurs, they need to stay in with the elite to make it work, but I think that's easier to do than make the leap that everton are trying with the spectre of trying to fund a new stadium still looming. West Ham of course will stumble along as normal
Apparently it's £111m everton lost. FFP is calculated over 3 seasons, so I've been reading so that's covered by previous profit (player sales) Their concern is they need European football to be able to maintain current costs. This info comes via MSN reports from Liverpool echo

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Believer
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by Believer » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:09 pm

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:20 pm
If you rotate the fullbacks with (many would say worse) Zab and Masuaka then that group played an awful lot of games for a team that finished 10th.
Very true however all of the players are 1 year older, they are having to play a lot more games as the squad is smaller, we had Fabianski in goal for a full season and had Arnautovic. All of these things have affected us. The plain fact IMO is that the first team, in fact the squad needs more pace, more dynamism and a lot need replaced with younger models who aren't blowing after 60-70 mins..

SEAHammer
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by SEAHammer » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:50 am

goa127 wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:18 pm
This money league is very misleading. It refers to income per year but doesn't consider other factors. I was reading yesterday how Everton lost something like £70m last year, a hole which had to be plugged by the owners. They reckon they need European football asap to avoid falling foul of FFP. Spurs income increased significantly after their move but have now incurred a massive £694m (don't know how I remembered the amount) debt, which of course hugely adds to their costs. These two clubs are both taking massive punts but at different levels. TBH if I wanted to back one I think it'd be Spurs, they need to stay in with the elite to make it work, but I think that's easier to do than make the leap that everton are trying with the spectre of trying to fund a new stadium still looming. West Ham of course will stumble along as normal
I think you're looking at three very different scenarios here ....

Everton have used their owners money to finance that age old gamble - if we buy success we will cover the cost - just like so many clubs before them this could bite them in the arse. Unless you have Chelsea or City backing then you must live within your means. Even having a 'sugar daddy' no longer necessarily works, Everton have used the same dodgy structure where another of the owner's companies pay an extortionate amount for sponsorship rights, City got away with that on the back of massive success, not sure Everton will. However as City and Chelsea have proved you can buy success, will a new ground clinch that for them?

Spurs on the other hand have done what many growing business do, they have leveraged their assets to generate increased revenue, sure they borrowed 600m but they did that at the perfect moment, low interest rates and massive TV income. The new stadium will increase their match-day revenue by anywhere from 70m-120m and it looks likely to be closer to the top end. Figures won't be out until about this time next year. The cost of that 600m debt that's now just 22m a year over 40 years on a very cheap US bond, that's the price of your average teenager these days. They've gone from 200m to 500m income in just five years. However to do that they have had to compromise on transfers, will their new found wealth enable them to catch back up?

Then there's us we went the other way, sell the assets and minimise outlay by renting facilities, this is a recognised business strategy employed by nearly all large retail companies, they don't invest capital in shops they rent. But, and here's the difference, top retailers rent the best positioned, best designed, best fitted out units available ... not second hand back street sheds. We will be able to turn a decent profit on less than half the turnover Spurs make but that's only because we spend less than half on the fans and the players. However we will forever be limited on income having no control over our 'home' so can we succeed by fighting over scraps from the top table?

So who is right? Everton for having the balls to take a massive gamble? Spurs for playing the long game? or West Ham for doing it on the cheap? .... well I'm pretty sure I know which one it isn't.

goa127
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by goa127 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:17 am

I think we've both come to pretty much the same conclusion SEAHammer. Everton's problem is they used to be rivals with Liverpool, now they're not even rivals with Leicester.

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Ozza
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by Ozza » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:07 pm

I’m convinced Everton will get it right though, I have no confidence under our loy that we will

goa127
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by goa127 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:57 pm

Ozza wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:07 pm
I’m convinced Everton will get it right though, I have no confidence under our loy that we will
Of course we won't! Don't think everton will TBH, but that's little comfort to us. Only Leicester and wolves look to have the belief, the rest of us are doomed to mediocrity

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BondsoBob
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by BondsoBob » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:04 pm

goa127 wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:57 pm
Of course we won't! Don't think everton will TBH, but that's little comfort to us. Only Leicester and wolves look to have the belief, the rest of us are doomed to mediocrity
The only consolation is that nothing is for ever. :thup:

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bubbles1966
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by bubbles1966 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:47 pm

Ozza wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:07 pm
I’m convinced Everton will get it right though, I have no confidence under our loy that we will
I doubt they will, though the odd thing is that for a brief period between 2014 and 2016, during Allardyce's final season and Bilic's first, we were a top 8 team for most of it.

If I look back, and scan what the difference was , I see;

GK - we signed couple of frees, but both mid-20s up and comers.
FB - we brought in Jenkinson, Byram, Cresswell - again, all early 20s
CB - we had four out and out senior CBs - every one indisputably PL standard.
CM - Song, Kouyate and Obiang came in.
AM - Downing, Amalfitano, Payet, Lanzini - and Downing and Payet were proper playmakers who were bagging goals and assists
Wingers - Antonio and Moses - young, quick
CF - Sakho, Valencia, Emenike - to complement Carroll,

It's a younger group, a more aspirational group, a more athletic group but with a fair sprinkling of flair.

We lost our way a little while after that.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Georgee Paris
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Re: Deloitte money league, Where are we ranked?

Post by Georgee Paris » Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:51 pm

BondsoBob wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:04 pm
The only consolation is that nothing is for ever. :thup:
Not really when we will probably win nothing forever. :scarfer:

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