The January Transfer Window 2020

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bigcarpchaser
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by bigcarpchaser » Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:59 pm

I don’t understand the “get Batshuayi in on loan” thing.
He’s turned us down at least twice, f*ck him.
He wouldn’t bleed Claret and Blue so it’s a no from
Me.

I don’t have any alternatives to offer though, sorry.

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Ironing Board
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Ironing Board » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:02 pm

HammerAl wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:56 pm
He went off in the 25th minute.
Well, the rationale is he made the game winning contribution.
Last edited by Ironing Board on Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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miketheloop
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by miketheloop » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:03 pm

bigcarpchaser wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:59 pm
I don’t understand the “get Batshuayi in on loan” thing.
He’s turned us down at least twice, f*ck him.
He wouldn’t bleed Claret and Blue so it’s a no from
Me.

I don’t have any alternatives to offer though, sorry.
Keh? What have I missed? He’s been pretty pony in England overall

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kev
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by kev » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:04 pm

Got 2 mates who are Stoke season ticket holders. They have said that on their forums etc it's stated that not one single enquiry has been made for Allen. They don't see him going at all.

Depressed Hammer
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Depressed Hammer » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:13 pm

This reminds me of a war film where a few soldiers are holding out , waiting for reinforcements !!

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Ironing Board
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Ironing Board » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:14 pm

Allen would ease the pressure on Rice and Noble. If either of them get injured then we are really screwed. 5-10M for a proven player in the league and who offers qualities that will be useful in a relegation scrap is quite cheap, in the circumstances.

Depressed Hammer
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Depressed Hammer » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:17 pm

Ironing Board wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:14 pm
Allen would ease the pressure on Rice and Noble. If either of them get injured then we are really screwed. 5-10M for a proven player in the league and who offers qualities that will be useful in a relegation scrap is quite cheap, in the circumstances.
Totally agree.

Hammer.CA
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Hammer.CA » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:24 pm

smuts wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:28 pm
If Joe Allen is really the best we can find for about 7million to assist our relegation battle then words fail me.
His agent on here can easily explain why he should sign for us, the better his team mates are the better he gets.

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hammer1975
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by hammer1975 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:31 pm

In a world where the choice is Allen or no-one I get why people would go for Allen.

Utter false economy imo.

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stu1
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by stu1 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:37 pm

miketheloop wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:03 pm
Keh? What have I missed? He’s been pretty pony in England overall
People seem to think this but he’s just not been given a chance at Chelsea, whilst he did well at Palace.

In 56 premier league games he’s scored 13 goals and contributed 3 assists, which doesn’t sound very impressive.

However if you dig a bit deeper, he’s actually only played 1,471 minutes meaning he’s scored or assisted on average every 92 minutes.

Conte in particular loved bringing him on in stoppage time which distorts his stats. His average duration of appearance per game is only 26 minutes!

All that being said he’s turned us down enough times so f*** him.

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Ironing Board
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Ironing Board » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:44 pm

hammer1975 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:31 pm
In a world where the choice is Allen or no-one I get why people would go for Allen.

Utter false economy imo.
Not really. His fee is low, he is proven and we will get at least 2-3 years service. He won’t be the guy who will be a March winner, but will be a consistent 7-8 out of 10 in midfield who can keep things ticking over. His work rate is exceptional

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fjthegrey
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by fjthegrey » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:46 pm

Consistently 8/10.

So he'd be playing at Rice's level then? Arguably above it.

I think you're kidding yourself with that call.

Cellar-door
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Cellar-door » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:46 pm

Ironing Board wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:14 pm
Allen would ease the pressure on Rice and Noble. If either of them get injured then we are really screwed. 5-10M for a proven player in the league and who offers qualities that will be useful in a relegation scrap is quite cheap, in the circumstances.

Any CM could ease pressure on Rice and Noble, and for 10M you should be able to find one much better than Joe Allen. Also... the idea than anyone who played in the PL is proven even if he's gone down a level in competition and declined greatly is silliness. Joe Allen is playing average at best in the Championship for a team at the bottom of the table in part because his pace has declined to glacial. For 10M I would hope for a player of better quality now, or at the very least the same quality but not closing in on 30 and already into a significant decline.

If the question is Joe Allen or no signing... yes Allen is probably worth it (though close since his wages clogging up the bill for years will be an issue. But that is't the question. The question is Joe Allen, or another MF available for a similar price, and the answer to that is rarely going to be... yes go get Allen.

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Ironing Board
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Ironing Board » Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:56 pm

Cellar-door wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:46 pm
Any CM could ease pressure on Rice and Noble, and for 10M you should be able to find one much better than Joe Allen. Also... the idea than anyone who played in the PL is proven even if he's gone down a level in competition and declined greatly is silliness. Joe Allen is playing average at best in the Championship for a team at the bottom of the table in part because his pace has declined to glacial. For 10M I would hope for a player of better quality now, or at the very least the same quality but not closing in on 30 and already into a significant decline.

If the question is Joe Allen or no signing... yes Allen is probably worth it (though close since his wages clogging up the bill for years will be an issue. But that is't the question. The question is Joe Allen, or another MF available for a similar price, and the answer to that is rarely going to be... yes go get Allen.
Sure - name a few. 5-10M is nothing in today’s market. It is literally a 1M punt in old money.

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hammer1975
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by hammer1975 » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:00 pm

Ironing Board wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:44 pm
Not really. His fee is low, he is proven and we will get at least 2-3 years service. He won’t be the guy who will be a March winner, but will be a consistent 7-8 out of 10 in midfield who can keep things ticking over. His work rate is exceptional
He wasn’t even consistent in the game tonight let alone week in-week out. Sorry, he was poor in the first half.
He will have no residual value and be signed on a contract at least a year beyond his useful life. @£50k per week that’s £3m wasted. we’d then have to replace him in 2-3 years max. As he gets older the chances of injuries are also increased. If we went and paid £15-£20m for Hayden he’d have resale value or we’d not need to replace him for 7 years by the same age. Allen will be of no help for set pieces (he stands outside Stoke’s penalty area rather than even try to help defend aerial balls). He has tenacity - but no real pace to balance up our midfield. Hayden is one player off the top of my head that I’ve suggested as we’ve been linked with him - there are tonnes more around who would also be decent and involve a little more than the lazy scouting and imagination that is typical of us under Sulli.

We need to break the cycle we’re in - it would be utterly mad to add another player who is the wrong age, the wrong physicality, and lock ourselves in to continue to not invest in the right midfield for another season or two. Especially given the highly likely scenario that Rice will be gone in the summer irrespective of the Division we’re in next season.

Sorry for the rant...I was one of the few who supported Moyes coming in, but if the grand total of our one year plus search for a midfielder to balance our team up is Joe Allen then they can just f*** off - we will utterly deserve to go down.

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Ironing Board
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Ironing Board » Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:05 pm

Rant away - Tis a footy forum. But I think the fact we should ALSO be signing other, younger players, does not mean we should not snap up a bargain when we get a chance.

Since Michael ONeil (a competent coach) has come in, Stoke have been transformed, and Allen has been key to this. He is a player who would give some much needed depth to our squad. We are utterly threadbare in midfield, and Allen would be a solid short to mid-term signing. The club has plenty of money to service the squad, so I don’t think the fact he will have little resale value should get in the way of what he could bring to our very depleted squad right now.

Cellar-door
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Cellar-door » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:01 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:56 pm
Sure - name a few. 5-10M is nothing in today’s market. It is literally a 1M punt in old money.
Rupp cost Norwich almost nothing, Demme was sold for just over 10M, Lowen was loaned out, Vecino is available for loan, Sankharé is available on a free, Camarasa just went back on loan again, I'd have taken any of those deals over paying 7-10M and a new contract for Allen.

Looking at the summer deals as well, a CM of Allen's caliber or better was going for well under 10M, with Allen you're paying a HG tax, I mean Allen isn't clearly a better player than say... Sebastien Rode? Same age, went for under 5M between Bundesliga sides.

Realistically they should pony up for a 15M player like Berge or Sangare the difference in fee is minimal and more than made up by the youth of the player (meaning you get more good years out of them and/or re-sale value).

traxop
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by traxop » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:13 am

hammer1975 wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:39 pm
Much, much worse. Free headers straight to oppo. Passes behind players when they break. Outmuscled repeatedly. He’s been pretty poor.
It gets worse If you dig a little deeper into the match stats. Only 71% passing accuracy, only 1 dribble attempt(unsuccessful), 4 times he was dribbled past and only won 2 out of 10 ground duels.

Stats aside, the question no one is asking is, what purpose would he serve in our team? Let's for a moment say Allen is really that much better than Noble and he replaces him in the starting lineup, but it's Rice that gets injured. Can anyone really see a midfield two with Noble and Allen together?

With their skill sets overlapping, it also limits our tactical changes we can make through the middle of the park - and what that really means is that in games where one goes for 70-90 mins, the other effectively uses up a slot on the bench, or are we suggesting we just drop Noble altogether from the match day squad on most weeks?

How does getting Allen address the ongoing concerns regarding having a physical presence, pace, creativity from the middle(if Rice is there to screen for the back 3/4)? Anyone who has looked at our bench the last couple of weeks can already see we don't have any one we can call upon to make a difference, we can't be wasting a slot on the bench.

I really hope we stay away from Allen, buying him does nothing to address the balance of the squad. Buying Allen will just be buying for the sake of buying.

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Ironing Board
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:04 am

Allen was again the highest rated player for Stoke today, along with Butland:

ALLEN: Wonderfully aggressive midfield offering and took one for the team when Pereira's elbow tried to rearrange some of his teeth 8

And I would say Allen is a better player than Rode. The latter player has played less than 70 games since 2014. Allen has played more than double that since 2016 alone.

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Peaches
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Re: The January Transfer Window 2020

Post by Peaches » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:10 am

Bordeaux are set to loan out Raul Bellanova this month, HellasVerona, Sampdoria and Atalanta are all interested in a loan with an option to buy. He is exactly the kind of player we should be after. 6’1 right back who is good positionally, with good pace and is great on the ball with good delivery. Italy U 21 international, who was excellent for Italy U20s. Won’t cost much on loan or if we eventually buy him. Affordable and potentially long term solution to the right back position. Only 20 so won’t use a squad space this year or next year.
Last edited by Peaches on Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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