Michail Antonio

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Ariksan
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Ariksan » Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:17 pm

Dont get me wrong I love the lad but games like these today show that he's laking 10 years of experience in playing as a striker. Not to his fault. The lad got all the ingridients and hats off to all his achievements. A lot of players should look up to him. But what he lacks is the decision making when on the ball in promising situations. He just takes too long sometimes, maybe overthinking. Just make a decision and commit. Pass or shoot. Even if it turns out to be the wrong decision, so what. But just keeping the ball and do nothing creates nothing.

Lovejoy
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Lovejoy » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:01 pm

Not a centre forward in a month of Sunday’s. I’ve said it time an again, been a very good player for us for 7m but he should not be our go to man. Vastly overrated by a lot and I’ll never accept we can’t find a better forward than him or someone equally as good. Tons of gone in the last few windows.

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funky chicken
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by funky chicken » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:03 pm

He had an assist today did he not? He did his job. Which is more that can be said for the players down the other end of the field.

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Dwight1970
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Dwight1970 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:04 pm

Again someone who loves Antonio but I simply do not see a centre forward in him, as a striker he has none of the movement in the box or shooting instincts to be a consistent goalscorer then as someone leading of the line none of the hold up play or awareness to build up attacks off him

His game seems to try to spin his marker as he did as a winger but in central positions with it with limit success against centre backs than with full backs with, he seems to have no interest in winning headers or holding the ball up, he still plays like Antonio the winger and that is where he should be.

Imagine having a proper forward leading the line with Bowen, Antonio, Fornals, etc working off him this side could really something else going forward that meant we might be to afford letting in two game and still win.

Turtlecharityracer
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Turtlecharityracer » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:23 pm

Genuine question.
How can a team progress when playing 1 out and out CF who has scored 1 goal in his last 16 matches?
Defend him all you want but that is an horrific stat.

Emphasises the need for Newman to sign a CF this window.

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Bubbles Fortuna
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:25 pm

Turtlecharityracer wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:23 pm
Genuine question.
How can a team progress when playing 1 out and out CF who has scored 1 goal in his last 16 matches?
Defend him all you want but that is an horrific stat.

Emphasises the need for Newman to sign a CF this window.
2 in his last 6, but keep making stats up. Proving time and time again you're a troll.

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Bubbles Fortuna
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:26 pm

Lovejoy wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:01 pm
Not a centre forward in a month of Sunday’s. I’ve said it time an again, been a very good player for us for 7m but he should not be our go to man. Vastly overrated by a lot and I’ll never accept we can’t find a better forward than him or someone equally as good. Tons of gone in the last few windows.
2nd only to Salah in goal involvements this season.

Who are these 'tonnes' of better forwards who have gone in the last few windows?

Turtlecharityracer
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Turtlecharityracer » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:26 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:25 pm
2 in his last 6, but keep making stats up. Proving time and time again you're a troll.
Apologies.
2 in 16.

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Centre Half
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Centre Half » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:27 pm

Dwight1970 wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:04 pm
Again someone who loves Antonio but I simply do not see a centre forward in him, as a striker he has none of the movement in the box or shooting instincts to be a consistent goalscorer then as someone leading of the line none of the hold up play or awareness to build up attacks off him

His game seems to try to spin his marker as he did as a winger but in central positions with it with limit success against centre backs than with full backs with, he seems to have no interest in winning headers or holding the ball up, he still plays like Antonio the winger and that is where he should be.

Imagine having a proper forward leading the line with Bowen, Antonio, Fornals, etc working off him this side could really something else going forward that meant we might be to afford letting in two game and still win.
I thought this today actually, he never ever holds the ball up and brings teammates into play like a ‘typical’ lone striker would do. All he does is control it and try and spin in behind, doing it all himself.

That’s been effective in the past and no doubt it will be effective again for us at many points this season. Sometimes though he needs to keep it simple and lay a simple pass off.

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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Lovejoy » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:41 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:26 pm
2nd only to Salah in goal involvements this season.

Who are these 'tonnes' of better forwards who have gone in the last few windows?
Wilson, Watkins, Abraham, Ings, Hwang. Let’s not pretend there hasn’t been players available. Abraham being the obvious one last summer. Antonio is seen as this superstar centre forward and he isn’t. He is one of the main reason we give the ball away so much. As I say been a good player but I said start of the season and I said it last year he shouldn’t be our main man for goals.

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Bubbles Fortuna
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:44 pm

Turtlecharityracer wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:26 pm
Apologies.
2 in 16.
3 in 16. Another lie.

Your endless vendetta against every single West Ham player is getting old fast.

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Bubbles Fortuna
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:50 pm

Lovejoy wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:41 pm
Wilson, Watkins, Abraham, Ings, Hwang. Let’s not pretend there hasn’t been players available. Abraham being the obvious one last summer. Antonio is seen as this superstar centre forward and he isn’t. He is one of the main reason we give the ball away so much. As I say been a good player but I said start of the season and I said it last year he shouldn’t be our main man for goals.
In the last two years:
Wilson - 18 goals 5 assists
Watkins - 19 goals 6 assists
Antonio - 18 goals 11 assists

Watkins has now been shoved onto the wing for Villa.

We were in talks for Ings then Villa smashed in with a pocket full of Grealish money and blew everyone out of the water with a stupidly high bid and wages. For what it's worth, 4 goals this season and only 2 assists compared to Antonio's 8 goals and 6 assists.

I'm almost certain Abraham wasn't interested but my memory may be playing tricks on me, regardless he wasn't worth the money Chelsea wanted and the wages he wanted. 8 goals this season though and a good age does make him the least ridiculous of your claims.

Hwang is the real funny one. 4 goals and 0 assists, having made 18 appearances and scored none the season before.

As I said, and you ignored, Salah is the only player in the league involved in more goals than our 'not as good as Ollie Watkins, not a striker' striker.

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Dwight1970
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Dwight1970 » Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:52 pm

Antonio's stats are great but I think like Bowen they would be equally as good as a wide attacker, the point for me is that I feel at times we need a proper centre forward who wins headers, holds the ball up and looks play others in rather than trying to spin on every ball received.

Sometimes I feel we need that in games like today where we are struggling to play out from the back the option to go more direct and Antonio simply does not offer us that in the central position, I think our defence would have been under less pressure if we had that option today.

This is not about ditching Antonio but simply us not having any alternative to him to do something different that the time needs, the things that Antonio has rarely demonstrated he can do.
Last edited by Dwight1970 on Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lovejoy
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Lovejoy » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:03 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:50 pm
In the last two years:
Wilson - 18 goals 5 assists
Watkins - 19 goals 6 assists
Antonio - 18 goals 11 assists

Watkins has now been shoved onto the wing for Villa.

We were in talks for Ings then Villa smashed in with a pocket full of Grealish money and blew everyone out of the water with a stupidly high bid and wages. For what it's worth, 4 goals this season and only 2 assists compared to Antonio's 8 goals and 6 assists.

I'm almost certain Abraham wasn't interested but my memory may be playing tricks on me, regardless he wasn't worth the money Chelsea wanted and the wages he wanted. 8 goals this season though and a good age does make him the least ridiculous of your claims.

Hwang is the real funny one. 4 goals and 0 assists, having made 18 appearances and scored none the season before.

As I said, and you ignored, Salah is the only player in the league involved in more goals than our 'not as good as Ollie Watkins, not a striker' striker.
I haven’t ignored that fact, but what you saying is Moyes has been right not to sign even one of them players or someone of sorts to even share the load. I’ve seen it on here people saying we have the same problem as spurs do with trying to have someone compete with Kane, it’s utter cobblers. It is simply not healthy for Antonio to have zero competition and he imo vastly overrated by quite a few. I maintain Antonio would have been equally has effective out wide. People seem to forget the amount of goals he did score from wide positions.

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Bubbles Fortuna
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:07 pm

I'd have liked Abraham, but he didn't want to come.

I think Villa overpaid for Watkins and Ings.

Hwang is still an unknown quantity.

Wilson and Antonio would have just split time in the medical room!

We absolutely need another forward, but I think you're being exceedingly harsh on Antonio. It is hard for us to sign someone, and it is similar to Kane. We need to buy someone like Son who can play with or instead of Antonio, we kind of have that with Bowen but could do with another more striker like option for sure. The issue is there's no point spending £25-£30 million on someone who isn't going to challenge, we need to put Antonio on the bench, I'm sure you agree with me there.

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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by bristolhammerfc » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:41 pm

Looked tired and lacked pace today.

Pushed wide and looked uncomfortable all game. That and the masonic thing with his shorts.

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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by jastons » Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:51 pm

Antonio had an assist today and put the cross in for Bowen to miss in the last minute. Not his best performance but I don't think he deserves the level of criticism he's had on here today.

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Billy Hunt
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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by Billy Hunt » Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:42 am

Antonio had a stinker yesterday, looked totally knackered and on his heels throughout. The cross for Bowens miss at the end was a poor one, without a big deflection it would have got nowhere near Bowen.

Gave the ball away 29 times and lost 17 of 23 tackles/duels.

No getting away from it, he had a rotter of a game

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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by London Fields Hammer » Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:35 am

Billy Hunt wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:42 am


Gave the ball away 29 times and lost 17 of 23 tackles/duels.

That was mainly because the service he got was appalling - our keeper and defenders kept punting it up to him and sending long passes - it was incredibly predictable and left him having to turn with his back to a very good defender backed up by midfielders who knew he had no support. Not saying he had a great game but we had no positive game plan. Possession starts from the back and we kept giving it away.

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Re: Michail Antonio

Post by szola » Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:45 am

jastons wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:51 pm
Antonio had an assist today and put the cross in for Bowen to miss in the last minute. Not his best performance but I don't think he deserves the level of criticism he's had on here today.
You're right :thup:

and in a way, that is just the crux of matter. He will influence the game. If he was technically consistent and knew how to make decisions in the latter third of the pitch, he wouldn't be a West Ham player anymore. His physical presence and perseverence will get him into the xG-xA-xP categories. His predictably changing form will make us lovehate him.

I'd wish he could have someone at the club who could step in, now and then, to give the man a few minutes rest. Maybe someone from the U23/Academy? Or someone who is in the other end of their career, yet good enough for the odd minutes here and there. A Noble for the attacking half.

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