Issa Diop

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codger
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by codger »

Turtlecharityracer wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:13 pm Some stats.
Leeds have not scored 3 goals away from home all season in the PL until today.
Southanpton have only scored 3 goals away from home in the PL this season against us.

Mostly, what see. Imo, clear deterioration in certain defenders.
Yep. Hes right you know :grin:
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the pink palermo
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by the pink palermo »

Turtlecharityracer wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:13 pm Some stats.
Leeds have not scored 3 goals away from home all season in the PL until today.
Southanpton have only scored 3 goals away from home in the PL this season against us.
Some stats.
We scored two in each game- we lost by the odd goal .
Turtlecharityracer wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:13 pm Mostly, what see. Imo, clear deterioration in certain defenders.
While that's your opinion you haven't offered any evidence to back that up.

Who do you think was at fault for their third goal today ?
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Ironing Board
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Ironing Board »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:46 pm I think you mean the 4th goal that was disallowed
That one too. For the third he goes to tackle then backs off for no reason allowing the opponent all the time in the world to pick out the pass.

The disallowed one was worse, but the third was one of those where you just go through with a hard tackle to clear the danger.
Turtlecharityracer
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Turtlecharityracer »

the pink palermo wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:38 pm Some stats.
We scored two in each game- we lost by the odd goal .


While that's your opinion you haven't offered any evidence to back that up.

Who do you think was at fault for their third goal today ?
Equal measure between Diop, Vlasic and Dawson.
Panic ball from Diop.
Weak and poor control from Vlasuc.
Dawson ball watching and 10 yards behind every other defender allowing massive space for Leeds.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Turtlecharityracer »

the pink palermo wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:21 pm Smart managers don't present their players with ready made excuses.

Smart managers use every scientific technique they have to assess players tiredness, it's why players frequently wear monitors.

Today for example, Fornals got hooked to many people surprise. Moyes most likely did it to avoid the player getting injued.
Have to disagree with the first point. I have heard the smartest manages in the league - Guardiola, Klopp, Tuchel - publicly complain their players are tired.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by the pink palermo »

Vlassic. All day long.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Turtlecharityracer »

the pink palermo wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:53 pm Vlassic. All day long.
Not going tobargue but take a look at Dawsons position when Diop makes the pass. I wouldn't be happy with that as a manger.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by the pink palermo »

Turtlecharityracer wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:52 pm Have to disagree with the first point. I have heard the smartest manages in the league - Guardiola, Klopp, Tuchel - publicly complain their players are tired.
Are they the smartest Managers in the league ?

Their teams are where most would expect them to be.

The team that is over achieving is David Moyes.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Turtlecharityracer »

the pink palermo wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:55 pm Are they the smartest Managers in the league ?

Their teams are where most would expect them to be.

The team that is over achieving is Davis Moyes.
Not arguing that Moyes league position is a real over achievement. Maybe Wolves sand Brighton fans would say the same.
The point I would ask is, amwhatvteams are building for prolonged improvement and what ones are just going through a -moment' that won't be sustainable? Easily argued that includes owners input as well as managers.
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wwipe2001
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by wwipe2001 »

Everyone has their place, and unfortunately Issa’s is not here. He is not a bad footballer. He is an adequate 4th choice center half for us. But For his age, time spent here, development to date, and what we paid for him, he’s been a failure. He was meant to be 1st choice not 4th. He isn’t improving anymore, at least not with us.

I also do not see mentioned, but this guy was *captain* of his club when we signed him. I don’t expect him to be our captain, but you’d think there would be some mental steel, resolve, leadership, something. He seems so low on confidence and has been for a while. Maybe this is the limit of his ability. It’s just not at the standard we’re looking to push on to.

The best thing for all parties is to loan him out / give him a chance to rediscover himself (like what Lingard did with us), sell him permanently in the summer, and reinvest the funds in someone who can either be proper 4th choice on the cheap (another Dawson) or challenging for proper 2nd choice (to eventually phase Oggy out over the coming years, or if his injury - hopefully not - leaves him a different player).

Nothing against the guy, he seems like a lovely bloke, and he’s trying hard - it just isn’t the right fit for where we want to be, which is challenging top 6
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Ironing Board wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:38 pm That one too. For the third he goes to tackle then backs off for no reason allowing the opponent all the time in the world to pick out the pass.

The disallowed one was worse, but the third was one of those where you just go through with a hard tackle to clear the danger.
Once Vlasic has given the ball away there is nothing Diop can do about that goal
The ball is switched to the other side immediately
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Diogenes
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Diogenes »

My problem with Diop isn't just this game though. He has been struggling all season and (IMHO) getting steadily worse. For those of us at the game it was obvious his confidence was totally shot. Nothing against the lad who I am sure is a nice bloke with maybe the talent to succeed somewhere and find his form. But I very much doubt it will be with West Ham.
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Upminster Hammer
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Upminster Hammer »

I am not defending his performance yesterday, it was awful.

However!

He is being asked to play on the left side, you can see every time he gets the ball he wants to shift it to his right, his passing with his left just isnt there. I think he is doing a much better job there than Dawson would and clearly doesn't trust to play Dawson there either.

I also agree his confidence is waning which is no doubt playing a part on judgement and decision making.

He has all the aspects to be a great centre half, I hope its just maturity and we stick with him and reap the benefits in a couple of years. Maybe send him out on loan in the summer.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by kitthehammer »

Upminster Hammer wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:39 am I am not defending his performance yesterday, it was awful.

However!

He is being asked to play on the left side, you can see every time he gets the ball he wants to shift it to his right, his passing with his left just isnt there. I think he is doing a much better job there than Dawson would and clearly doesn't trust to play Dawson there either.

I also agree his confidence is waning which is no doubt playing a part on judgement and decision making.

He has all the aspects to be a great centre half, I hope its just maturity and we stick with him and reap the benefits in a couple of years. Maybe send him out on loan in the summer.
I agree but i would add to this that he and dawson were also missing a defensive midfielder in front of them. He's not our best defender but this was a bad match for him partly because the manager hadn't helped him.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Pete647580 »

wwipe2001 wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:45 am
I also do not see mentioned, but this guy was *captain* of his club when we signed him. I don’t expect him to be our captain, but you’d think there would be some mental steel, resolve, leadership, something. He seems so low on confidence and has been for a while. Maybe this is the limit of his ability. It’s just not at the standard we’re looking to push on to.

The best thing for all parties is to loan him out / give him a chance to rediscover himself (like what Lingard did with us), sell him permanently in the summer, and reinvest the funds in someone who can either be proper 4th choice on the cheap (another Dawson) or challenging for proper 2nd choice (to eventually phase Oggy out over the coming years, or if his injury - hopefully not - leaves him a different player).

Nothing against the guy, he seems like a lovely bloke, and he’s trying hard - it just isn’t the right fit for where we want to be, which is challenging top 6
Agree with this. If he had Terry Butcher or Tony Adams' mentality he might be a real talent but his head as completely gone. That has to be affecting the quality of his decision making (which is shocking). I'd like to see him when he's full of confidence. He's become the whipping boy.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Clyde Best »

Definitely unfair to pick out Diop yesterday, he is so obviously prone to losing confidence in a game if he makes a bad decision. And once his confidence is shot the bad decision making gets worse. What didn't help was Leeds high press putting him under pressure with Cresswell and Lanzini consistently passing him the ball when he had nowhere else to go, needed Rice, Dawson, Fabianski to give him some options to help break the press and relieve the pressure, that made him look worse, he's a young lad that needs some support and to build his confidence, am surprised that he hasn't developed at West Ham in his first season he looked a major prospect.
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old fart
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by old fart »

:cry: Rices ill disciplined maurading doesnt help, when the ball is lost high up, reminds me a bit of when Parker used to do the same thing

Looks good but doesnt help the back four
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by sutts07 »

old fart wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:05 am :cry: Rices ill disciplined maurading doesnt help, when the ball is lost high up, reminds me a bit of when Parker used to do the same thing

Looks good but doesnt help the back four
Let's not go out of our way to make excuses for Diop here. He was, and has been pretty poor of late. He is not comfortable on the ball, the other players are not comfortable passing him the ball and he is making costly errors.

I certainly don't think it helps when we are missing one of (god forbid both) Rice and Soucek as they do dove tail well to add a layer of protection (something that neither of Fornals or Lanzini offered when Rice was given the opportunity to get forward), but a top level CB should still be able to handle an isolated striker on their own. Look at the difference in displays at opposite ends of the pitch against Leeds. Antonio was absolutely bossed and bullied out of the game, James was given the freedom of the park and put us under no end of pressure forcing mistakes.

Worth keeping things in perspective, Diop is our 4th choice CB right now and in an injury free season his game time would be very limited.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Doc H Ball »

There’s a lot of talk about Diop but none about the shape. Anyone would have been exposed in a four man defence with Lanzini and a marauding Rice in front to protect.

Swap Zouma with either Dawson or Diop yesterday and he would have been done on the deck as well.

Crazy selection and just as Lanzini was excelling by playing where he should do.

I applauded Moyes for going all cavalier at Palace but he did have his 2 DMs. Yesterday was gung ho.

I’m not complaining too much as it was a good game and I prefer excitement to results.
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Re: Issa Diop

Post by Burnley Hammer »

I just suddenly thought as I was posting in the transfer thread - and apologies if someone has already mentioned this - but a few people have mentioned that Diop is struggling on the left side of defence as he's right footed. But in his first season, the one where many have said he gave his best performances, he also played on the left as Balbuena played on the right.
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