January 2022 Transfer Window

A selection of the very best posts and/or most memorable threads on KUMB since the current Forum launched in 2002.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Puff Daddy » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:16 pm

I read today, Newcastle have given up their pursuit of Sven Botman. Hardly a surprise, it always was a pointless chase anyway. He was never going there so long as he had hole in his arse

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by D C » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:20 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:15 pm
FWIW, whoscored's top 10 players who aren't owned by the top 7....

1. AM: Raphinha (Leeds)
2. AM: Saint Maximin (Newcastle)
3. CM: McGinn (Aston Villa)
4. CM: Bissouma (Brighton)
5. CF: Toney (Brentford)
6. AM: Dennis (Watford)
7. CM: Tielemans (Leicester)
8. CM: Ward-Prowse (Southampton)
9. CB: Saiss (Wolves)
10. AM: McNeil (Burnley)

Bubbling just under and just inside the top 50 in the PL are Duffy (Brighton), Kilman (Wolves)

I'd say some of those are gettable if you're willing to wave just £20m about - and almost all are for £40m or less.

In positions 13-16 are Trakowski, Josh King, Charlie Taylor (highest rated full back) and Adama Traore.

Strikes me that this should be something like a domestic target list.
What have they based that on? Their match day ratings?

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by El brooko79 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:23 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:15 pm
FWIW, whoscored's top 10 players who aren't owned by the top 7....

1. AM: Raphinha (Leeds)
2. AM: Saint Maximin (Newcastle)
3. CM: McGinn (Aston Villa)
4. CM: Bissouma (Brighton)
5. CF: Toney (Brentford)
6. AM: Dennis (Watford)
7. CM: Tielemans (Leicester)
8. CM: Ward-Prowse (Southampton)
9. CB: Saiss (Wolves)
10. AM: McNeil (Burnley)

Bubbling just under and just inside the top 50 in the PL are Duffy (Brighton), Kilman (Wolves)

I'd say some of those are gettable if you're willing to wave just £20m about - and almost all are for £40m or less.

In positions 13-16 are Trakowski, Josh King, Charlie Taylor (highest rated full back) and Adama Traore.

Strikes me that this should be something like a domestic target list.
I'd say none of them other than Denis (maybe) could be got for £20m.
I'd also say 5 of them would not be got for £40m.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by bubbles1966 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:26 pm

D C wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:20 pm
What have they based that on? Their match day ratings?
Essentially, yes - they give a match level rating influenced by the interventions the players have made within each game. It generally favours goalscorers/creators, but it's possible to rate according to positions. One or two anomalies are very high ratings for a single exceptional talent - i.e winning headers or dribbling for example.

There are some occasional head-scratchers but it's generally in the right ball-park, imo.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by bubbles1966 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:32 pm

El brooko79 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:23 pm
I'd say none of them other than Denis (maybe) could be got for £20m.
I'd also say 5 of them would not be got for £40m.
Very few players who do not play in the front 4 ever cost anything like £40m, and those who do tend to need Manchester United (and Arsenal recently) losing their sanity to attract that fee.

Duffy, Taylor, Tarkowski, Saiss - all sub £20m. McNeil, Toney and McGinn there or thereabouts.

Only player in that group that's definitely worth over £40m is Raphinha, imo.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:37 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:15 pm
FWIW, whoscored's top 10 players who aren't owned by the top 7....

1. AM: Raphinha (Leeds)
2. AM: Saint Maximin (Newcastle)
3. CM: McGinn (Aston Villa)
4. CM: Bissouma (Brighton)
5. CF: Toney (Brentford)
6. AM: Dennis (Watford)
7. CM: Tielemans (Leicester)
8. CM: Ward-Prowse (Southampton)
9. CB: Saiss (Wolves)
10. AM: McNeil (Burnley)

Bubbling just under and just inside the top 50 in the PL are Duffy (Brighton), Kilman (Wolves)

I'd say some of those are gettable if you're willing to wave just £20m about - and almost all are for £40m or less.

In positions 13-16 are Trakowski, Josh King, Charlie Taylor (highest rated full back) and Adama Traore.

Strikes me that this should be something like a domestic target list.
Because I'm waiting for the washing machine to finish....

Raphinha, Tielemans and Bissouma would be amazing gets but I reckon they'll have the pick of a few Champions League regulars if they agitate for a move.

Toney and JWP would probably be very expensive for how big of an improvement they would bring, latter in particular feels like a lifer unless Saints go down.

St Maximin probably isn't gettable from the Geordies yet but could be interesting in a year or so if he gets pushed aside by shiny new toys. Pretty much the same goal/assist numbers as Traore in half as many games in a worse team.

Dennis, Saiss, McNeill I couldn't say enough about. Might have been impressed by McNeill but then not sure if that was the other lad at Burnley, Brownhill?

Charlie Taylor is the one that interests me most and looks most realistic out of all of those. Probably not greatly expensive and would bring some solidity to the left back position for the next 3/4 years.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by El brooko79 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:41 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:32 pm
Very few players who do not play in the front 4 ever cost anything like £40m, and those who do tend to need Manchester United (and Arsenal recently) losing their sanity to attract that fee.

Duffy, Taylor, Tarkowski, Saiss - all sub £20m. McNeil, Toney and McGinn there or thereabouts.

Only player in that group that's definitely worth over £40m is Raphinha.
What someone is worth and what a club will sell for are different.
I was only talking about the top 10. Their clubs would not sell: Raphinha, Tielemans, ASM, Bissouma and probably JWP for £40m.

Saiss, Toney and McGinn would be more than £20m. McGinn is not that good imo but that's not the point.

Taylor. Duffy and Tarkowski very unlikely to be allowed to leave this window and if they were it would be over the odds and likely more than £20m.

If Watford loose to Norwich and Burnley this week (not sure if Burnley is on) then they have had it. Maybe Denis could be good, but he has had 6 months in the prem and a bit too short if you ask me. I don't think he has the link up play.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by bowltorious » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:42 pm

botman
hickey
lingard
barbosa loan

we need to go all out now not the summer. top 4, europa and fa cup to try and get. we never invest and we always miss out because of it.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:47 pm

El brooko79 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:41 pm


What someone is worth and what a club will sell for are different.
I was only talking about the top 10. Their clubs would not sell: Raphinha, Tielemans, ASM, Bissouma and probably JWP for £40m.

Saiss, Toney and McGinn would be more than £20m. McGinn is not that good imo but that's not the point.

Taylor. Duffy and Tarkowski very unlikely to be allowed to leave this window and if they were it would be over the odds and likely more than £20m.

If Watford loose to Norwich and Burnley this week (not sure if Burnley is on) then they have had it. Maybe Denis could be good, but he has had 6 months in the prem and a bit too short if you ask me. I don't think he has the link up play.
Yeah i agree. Unless they agitated for a move or were close to end of contract you wouldn't get any of those 5 you mentioned for £40m

If any of them were 'available' as it were, then there would be a lot of interest in them from established Champions League clubs here and abroad, and the English ones would be prepared to chuck a load of money at them

I am not sure any of them would see West Ham as enough of a 'step up' to persuade them to leave anyway - especially with other clubs being interested

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Wilko1304 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:45 pm

I would love us to go and get James Ward-Prowse, a player who is so good at set pieces that he's become underrated everywhere else.

Charlie Taylor has always felt like one we let slip.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by bubbles1966 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 10:56 pm

Southampton would probably bite at £25m-£30m. They are a selling club.

I'm not a fan of Tielemans at all but his contract is in the last 18 months so Leicester are going to find offer levels dropping soon.

Ward Prowse replaces Cresswell in terms of set piece delivery.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Peaches » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:16 pm

Szalai is a very Moyes signing. €20M is a very fair price. It’s much better value for a better LCB than pretty much any one else we’ve been linked with. To put things in perspective he’s 24 this week, and would improve us more than Digne at £10M less on less than half the wages. That should leave more than enough for a striker. Szalai or Caleta-Carr are massive upgrades on Diop and with all due respect Dawson, and even a an upgrade on Ogbonna.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by hammerman11 » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:33 pm

There are players out there for reasonable prices but if we are looking fir the perfect signing we will sign no one and fade away

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by e20too » Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:56 pm

steveyrockstar wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:47 pm
You can probably be fairly certain that our 'main target' will also be the main target of other clubs, in which case we'd need back-up targets anyway.

In retrospect, it seems we held off signing a striker last Jan because we were dead-set on Tammy Abraham, who ended up joining Roma for a ridiculous £40m. We were probably also interested in Toney, but any hope of that deal ended with Brentford's promotion.

I still fancy a punt on Sarr of Watford in the summer, though.
We all know that’s a tough question but the other factor is that giving up on trying to achieve your goal this season in the hope of strengthening for next season is a big risk. There is no guarantee that a similar opportunity will be there to get top 4 next season. Indeed while the top three look untouchable as things stand how long can teams like Spurs, Arsenal and Man Untied keep underperforming while Wolves, Aston Villa and others likely Improve. Everton must improve at some stage and if Newcastle survive how soon do they start to pull it together. Geez we might get that player we want in Summer add a few others strengthen overall and still struggle to penetrate top 6. And that’s assuming we don’t lose Rise or others and of course if we wait for that ‘perfect’ signing in the Summer then failing to hit top 4 or even top 6 if we aren’t careful will probably be lost anyway and possibly even those who might be attracted now might not be so keen in those circumstances. Then we are back to having to offer higher wages to make up for the reduced attractiveness of our position and that seems judged on what’s come out highly unlikely.

If Moyes indeed ends up taking a transfers policy that he has rightly been praised for (in contrast to previous incompetence mind) to such extreme that we do no more than match at best those who leave or retire then he really would risk drawing disaster from the jaws of success and lose much of the good will built up. Been his undoing before. He deserves our patience but not endlessly, next two weeks are crucial if it’s not to be tested. Everyone here remembers Lyle rightly fondly but I also remember how having made so much from his squad took a similar attitude to transfers and lack of urgency in correcting obvious defects towards the end cost him his job and getting it wrong when finally he did act. Don’t want to see that again still pains me after so much promise.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by I am Legend » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:00 am

Ward-Prowse has a contract till 2026

He'll cost way more than 40 mill

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Gsbgsb » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:56 am

e20too wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:56 pm
We all know that’s a tough question but the other factor is that giving up on trying to achieve your goal this season in the hope of strengthening for next season is a big risk. There is no guarantee that a similar opportunity will be there to get top 4 next season. …….
Shortened the quote for ease but there seems to be a presumption that signing players now will somehow guarantee top 4 this season.

That there is no guarantee the opportunity will not arise next year is true but equally there is no guarantee it will not. Buying players now for the next 6 months who are less than ideal in the longer term (ie after this season) decreases that chance.

But we can sell them on again and buy who we really want? No we cannot as history has shown, getting bang average players off the books is far from easy not just for us but all teams. Getting in loans etc to cover short term issues is fine (and we should certainly be doing that if long term targets are not currently available) but buying a player you really do not want just because they are the available option now (unless you are desperate and mega rich like Newcastle) means you end up with a weaker squad/team in the longer term.

For far too long our recruitment has been scattergun, running down lists of players with no real appreciation of their strengths and what they can bring to the team. For me the end of this approach and moving to buying players because you want them not just because they are available and might fill a hole has been a breath of fresh air.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Hamburger » Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:25 am

So we are looking at the Turkish league to find a 'right player', seriously? Remember hot prospect Golkan Tore?

I'm somewhat bemused about the confidence behind Moyes 'right player' policy. Didn't work in the summer and so far it's not working now, potentially to the detriment of the club and players. Selling Haller in January and not August defies logic too, not to mention Hugill. A good manager, no doubt, but his 50% transfer success rate and dithering doesn't inspire imo.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by NedN » Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:11 am

Hamburger wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:25 am
So we are looking at the Turkish league to find a 'right player', seriously? Remember hot prospect Golkan Tore?

I'm somewhat bemused about the confidence behind Moyes 'right player' policy. Didn't work in the summer and so far it's not working now, potentially to the detriment of the club and players. Selling Haller in January and not August defies logic too, not to mention Hugill. A good manager, no doubt, but his 50% transfer success rate and dithering doesn't inspire imo.
I hear you about the Turkish league, and thinking about Eminike and Tore is pretty triggering for us irons. That said, Tore came up through at le Arse, then went to the Turkish league, it wasn't as if he was a hot prospect from that league. He also was a Bilic not Moyes transfer. I'll be the first to admit Moyes has got lots of transfers wrong over his career, but he's got some very very right for us. I don't think some search based on a completely specific and almost unique set of qualities to find "the right player" is leading us to start looking in the Turkish league all of a sudden because we couldn't find that exact mix of qualities anywhere else...

Moyes and Newman likely have a list for various positions. We've been rumoured to be interested in Szalai before (in the summer) and may very well have gone for him then too. He's hardly an unknown quantity, his performances in the Euros against very top opposition stood out (helped Hungary secure draws against Germany and France, although they did get beat up by Portugal), and DM was there watching him then. I think we may be reading into Moyes's "right player" comment too much...there probably isn't some magical search for the "right" player, where someone gets crossed off because they're missing some random attribute. It's more likely that we just have a list of defenders (and attackers, etc) that we like or think would fit, and we're probably looking at that list and seeing who could be available now, and Szalai is one such option.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Aceface » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:09 am

Appears to be wildly mixed opinions on Szalai from Turkish Lig fans. A lot think he’s great, but a noticeable number seem to believe he’s not even Fenerbahce’s best CB. Think the gist is he’s not playing quite as well this season as last?

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Hayden » Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:12 am

Hamburger wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 3:25 am
So we are looking at the Turkish league to find a 'right player', seriously? Remember hot prospect Golkan Tore?
That would be a very strange reason to write off an entire league / country. Don't go into management.

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