Michail Antonio: club legend?

The Forum for all football-related discussion, including West Ham United FC. Our busiest Forum and the place to begin if you're new to KUMB.

Moderators :  -DL-, Rio, the pink palermo, bristolhammerfc, chalks, Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304

User avatar
Diogenes
Posts: 3395
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:07 pm
Has liked: 106 likes
Total likes: 268 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Diogenes » Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:33 am

stu1 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 11:47 pm
Out of interest if we don’t win anything for another 30 years (not inconceivable) would that mean we wouldn’t have had any legends play for us in 70+ years?

For me Noble has to be a legend for his longevity and number of appearances, he’s been the heart of our team for nigh on 15 years.
Unfortunately yes. That's the thing about 'Legends', they are rare yet enduring. As I say 'hero', 'icon' etc. is fine with me, but Legend has to remain special otherwise is demeans the honour (IMHO of course).

Crouchend_Hammer
Posts: 20567
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:31 am
Location: Forest Gate
Has liked: 26 likes
Total likes: 355 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:41 am

Personally i think you can be a legend without having won anything
Most clubs win nothing but still have legends
In fact, you could argue that not winning anything makes a player more of a legend as easier to stay at a club when trophies are being collected

User avatar
Up the Junction
Thinks he owns the place
Posts: 65021
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:03 am
Has liked: 103 likes
Total likes: 573 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Up the Junction » Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:59 am

e17 wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:33 pm
UTJ - Vic Watson might have been gash today?!? They all smoked Woodbines at half time back then, and sod getting in the way of one of those balls when they were booted towards goal.
And so might Bobby Moore, if those are the defining criteria...

User avatar
Turns to Stone
Posts: 14280
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:21 am
Location: Tony Almeida
Has liked: 50 likes
Total likes: 275 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Turns to Stone » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:09 pm

West Ham are blessed to have a few giants of football amongst their historical ranks - Bobby Moore is a legend of the game, never mind West Ham. And as far as heroes go, you're going to have to work pretty hard to top the likes of Brooking and Bonds with 5- 600 games plus management stints. If Rice were to stick with West Ham and put a cup on his portfolio (or even an International tournament win) in his back pocket, then he would absolutely but up there with them.

Noble is already a club legend in my eyes, but ability wise he's not up there with the 4 I've named above and I'd imagine he'd never claim to be.

I personally hold Antonio in higher esteem than I did of someone like PDC, but that's a personal opinion. As othes have said - Payet, Di Canio, Antonio, Cole...these guys are cult heroes not legends. If we can get an Cup in the next year or two, then I think Antonio could jump ahead of those, but right now that's where he is for me.

User avatar
Up the Junction
Thinks he owns the place
Posts: 65021
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:03 am
Has liked: 103 likes
Total likes: 573 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Up the Junction » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:15 pm

Diogenes wrote:
Mon Jan 17, 2022 7:22 pm
For me you have to win something to be considered a Legend.
So by your rationale...

Matt Le Tissier, not a Southampton legend.

Alan Shearer, not a Newcastle legend.

Robin Friday, not a Reading legend, even.

It seems the fans of those three clubs (the first three that sprung to mind, there are of course many more) don't share your view.

User avatar
Danny's Dyer Acting
Posts: 5265
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:37 pm
Has liked: 36 likes
Total likes: 351 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:17 pm

Diogenes wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:33 am
Unfortunately yes. That's the thing about 'Legends', they are rare yet enduring. As I say 'hero', 'icon' etc. is fine with me, but Legend has to remain special otherwise is demeans the honour (IMHO of course).
Shearer at Newcastle
Le Tissier at Saints (and arguably JWP if he follows the example Noble has set here)
Baines at Everton

I think you'd find a fair proportion of fans of those clubs that would bestow this mythical "legend" status on those empty trophy cabinet merchants. Ultimately it's just a word. It's like world class, it means different things to different people.

Now, will Antonio be talked about by people well into the future? I think so and that's probably the most important thing (other than the money).

Edit: UTJ :shake:

User avatar
Up the Junction
Thinks he owns the place
Posts: 65021
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:03 am
Has liked: 103 likes
Total likes: 573 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Up the Junction » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:22 pm

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:17 pm
Baines at Everton
I was thinking of Duncan Ferguson DDA, but I believe he won an FA Cup.

And, of course, David Ginola won the League Cup at Spurs, so according to the above "have to have won something" criteria can have the 'legend' tag rightfully bestowed upon him, unlike Shearer and Le Tissier.

Which is, of course, just plain daft.

User avatar
Diogenes
Posts: 3395
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:07 pm
Has liked: 106 likes
Total likes: 268 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Diogenes » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:22 pm

Up the Junction wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:15 pm
So by your rationale...

Matt Le Tissier, not a Southampton legend.

Alan Shearer, not a Newcastle legend.

Robin Friday, not a Reading legend, even.

It seems the fans of those three clubs (the first three that sprung to mind, there are of course many more) don't share your view.
I have no idea, but I stick to my opinion as it at least has easily understood criteria. Is Shearer a Legend or Icon? Frankly, I don't care.

User avatar
Up the Junction
Thinks he owns the place
Posts: 65021
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:03 am
Has liked: 103 likes
Total likes: 573 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Up the Junction » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:32 pm

Diogenes wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:22 pm
I have no idea, but I stick to my opinion as it at least has easily understood criteria.
Well that's pretty simple to determine, if you click on the links I've added in my two previous posts all are referred to as "legend" by their local media, fans or club.

I would dare to suggest they're rather better qualified to comment than you or I.

User avatar
Diogenes
Posts: 3395
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:07 pm
Has liked: 106 likes
Total likes: 268 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Diogenes » Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:45 pm

Up the Junction wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:32 pm
Well that's pretty simple to determine, if you click on the links I've added in my two previous posts all are referred to as "legend" by their local media, fans or club.

I would dare to suggest they're rather better qualified to comment than you or I.
Of course, as I say its a personal opinion and happy if people clubs etc. differ.

Also, log-in seems to working ok today. Many thanks🤞

User avatar
LeonRivers
Posts: 9687
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: Way out of your league
Has liked: 464 likes
Total likes: 152 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by LeonRivers » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:19 pm

He wants 100 Premier League goals. If he sees out his career with us, that would see him 5th on the list.

It’ll require a 20+ season at least once along the way.

User avatar
Estuary
Posts: 5812
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 4:40 pm
Has liked: 234 likes
Total likes: 107 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Estuary » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:23 pm

Up the Junction wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:15 pm
So by your rationale...

Matt Le Tissier, not a Southampton legend.

Alan Shearer, not a Newcastle legend.

Robin Friday, not a Reading legend, even.

It seems the fans of those three clubs (the first three that sprung to mind, there are of course many more) don't share your view.
I agree with our cynical fellow Kumber, but for me, the key difference here is big Mich is still playing, and in my opinion a legend is a respect level normally for post playing career.
You have the odd exception, Billy Bonds while playing for his longevity and on field "commitment" as well as lifting two trophies. And Hurst, Moore and Peters because, as well as trophies for West Ham they won the world cup for England so it's safe to say they are legends while still relatively young footballers as they earned it on the field. As for Shearer, he was peerless as a PL striker as his goal record shows, he also won the league at Blackburn. And he signed for Newcastle rather than following the trophy laden glory trail with Sir Alex at Manchester Utd, so for me Shearer is not just a Newcastle and England legend, he should hold a special place in every football supporters heart as a man who put his home town club before his own career, something I think we would all aspire to.

User avatar
il_martello_di_genovesi
Posts: 13581
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:11 pm
Location: genova è solo blucerchiata.
Has liked: 118 likes
Total likes: 306 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:29 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:41 am
Personally i think you can be a legend without having won anything
You can of course, it's just what would set some apart from others. If he carries on his form, and I mean overall before it gets pointed out he isn't always at his best, and plays another 100+ games, 30+ goals etc, then of course, 10 years and our highest ever Premier League scorer would surely make him a club legend. Just currently, I think he needs a bit more. That could come from winning a trophy, achieving a top 4 finish or the above.

User avatar
djbubbles
Posts: 1003
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 12:14 am
Location: Westmeath Ireland. probably still in this taxi
Has liked: 15 likes
Total likes: 11 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by djbubbles » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:29 pm

Spose its all about personal choice. What you see as a legend i might not. Great tryer. Gives 100%. Nice guy. Long servent. Yes to all those.
Bobby, Billy, Trevor Dev, Parkes, Dicks are all legends. Im still talking about these guys all these years later.
I wont be talking about Antonio in 10 yrs time.

User avatar
DublinDave
Posts: 1526
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:13 am
Location: Dublin
Has liked: 116 likes
Total likes: 81 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by DublinDave » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:29 pm

When he scores in our Europa cup final win he with the rest of the team will be legends, as it stands he has cult hero status a la Carlton & DiCanio imho...

User avatar
il_martello_di_genovesi
Posts: 13581
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:11 pm
Location: genova è solo blucerchiata.
Has liked: 118 likes
Total likes: 306 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:34 pm

One place that likes to separate legends from icons from favoured personnel is Football Manager. I don't have this seasons as working from home, my personal PC is set up elsewhere and I don't get the time to use it, but previously their categories had been pretty fair tbh. I think the use of club icon is a good one.

User avatar
Danny's Dyer Acting
Posts: 5265
Joined: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:37 pm
Has liked: 36 likes
Total likes: 351 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by Danny's Dyer Acting » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:41 pm

djbubbles wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:29 pm
Spose its all about personal choice. What you see as a legend i might not. Great tryer. Gives 100%. Nice guy. Long servent. Yes to all those.
Bobby, Billy, Trevor Dev, Parkes, Dicks are all legends. Im still talking about these guys all these years later.
I wont be talking about Antonio in 10 yrs time.
Fair point. You'll be back to talking about Dixie, Duncan and Big Kev by that point I assume.

User avatar
il_martello_di_genovesi
Posts: 13581
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:11 pm
Location: genova è solo blucerchiata.
Has liked: 118 likes
Total likes: 306 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by il_martello_di_genovesi » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:45 pm

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:41 pm
Fair point. You'll be back to talking about Dixie, Duncan and Big Kev by that point I assume.
You've looked at the avatar and not the poster :lol:.

User avatar
yakandyeti
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:12 am
Has liked: 22 likes
Total likes: 12 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by yakandyeti » Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:51 pm

I wonder how many legends a club can really have? Can you have more than a couple from the same era? What's gone before probably sets the standard for each club.

User avatar
psychoscoredthelot
Posts: 9972
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:23 pm
Location: Upminster
Has liked: 63 likes
Total likes: 88 likes

Re: Michail Antonio: club legend?

Post by psychoscoredthelot » Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:10 pm

Im sure there are club legends at Yeovil or Torquay as an example that have played over 300 games for their club and won f*** all.

you dont have to win things to be considered a legend in my opinion

A mate of mine smashed 5 birds - dropped 6 pills and drank half of Ibiza dry in one night and he got called a legend by loads of my pals and all he won was a course of penicillin and a cotton bud down the japs eye

Post Reply