January 2022 Transfer Window

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steveyrockstar
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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by steveyrockstar » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:04 pm

EastleighHammer16 wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:52 pm
I CAN'T TAKE THE TENSION :newharry: :scarfer:

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Gsbgsb » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:05 pm

Aztec Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:54 pm
This really is the laziest argument I see when it comes to West Ham and transfers. There's just no point in formulating a proper response to this, is there?
So we did not pay over the top or that they were startling successes?

No objection to paying slightly over the odds (the January premium I mentioned for example) for the right player but doing it for just anybody is the stupidity of the previous regime repeated, an approach you seem happy with. We overpaid then for 2 players neither of whom were ultimately suited to the league/team, we brought Yarmo when he was probably not needed, not suitable.

Do you seriously believe we have deliberately not pursued a deal for a player we want who is available?

I do not want to return to the days of buying/loaning just any player because we can rather than X because we see how he fits league/team/squad wise. After all the former approach is what lead to the 50 strikers (or whatever it is) mostly failures in the first place.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Aztec Hammer » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:06 pm

Wilko1304 wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:01 pm
The problem is that waiting and "go Sully mental" aren't the two options.

And we can't forever say "Haller and Anderson didnt work for us" as a reason not to go to certain fees.
Jarrod Bowen was on his way to Palace until we did something we initially didn't want to do and upped our bid to £22m. The club felt it was a gamble at that price but they admired Bowen for a while and didn't want to miss out on the right player.

We spent ages trying to get Kurt Zouma for about £25m. Late in the process, the fee changed to £30m and though we didn't like it and it caused a few nervy days, we thankfully got the right player.

It's funny how the successful signings are never seen as overpays, but the two flops are. It's almost like he's using hindsight to fit his argument. The reality is all four of those players were signed for more than they had previously been valued or wanted at.

Two worked. Two didn't.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by chalks » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:07 pm

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:03 pm
3rd under Allardyce, we made one striker signing on a free. Finished 12th.
This is the one that really grates with me. We really were on the cusp of transitioning from the **** we've been for so many years to actually building something, but the owners didnt want to give SA a new contract so they just ****ed him off, didnt give him a penny to spend, and he, understandably, downed tools

A complete waste of a season that at one point looked like it was going to be amazing

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Gsbgsb » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:10 pm

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:03 pm
Not so sure on the last bit, but this is the best side we've had in a while. I will however add that this is the 4th time in about 8 years that we have been in this sort of position in January and not signed what we need in January.
3rd under Allardyce, we made one striker signing on a free. Finished 12th.
5th/6th under Bilic, we signed Emenike on loan. Finished 7th.
5th under Moyes, we signed Lingard, sold Haller. Finished 6th.
Now we are 4th under Moyes and there will certainly be frustration that failure to get what we need in January, could see us not make the most of another good opportunity. Especially when we have the likes of Rice and Bowen. We want to be showing them why they should stay.

Hopefully Moyes manages to sort it.
Interesting stat on Sky this morning. Had we not gained the 10 points we did from Lingard’s goal participations we would have finished 12th. Doubt we would have seen anything close to his figures from Haller so that is likely not the negative you are trying to portray.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Aztec Hammer » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:11 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:05 pm
So we did not pay over the top or that they were startling successes?

No objection to paying slightly over the odds (the January premium I mentioned for example) for the right player but doing it for just anybody is the stupidity of the previous regime repeated, an approach you seem happy with.
Where have I said I'd be happy with an approach of paying over the odds for just anybody? You're making stuff up.

I said to bring the right player in for our project, that can help us achieve what we apparently want to achieve, which has been stated many times to be European football, and possibly even Champions League qualification.

It's just funny and lazy how you mention the two transfer flops we paid strong money for and not the ones that turned out to be successful, but at the time, were seen as having paid over the odds to secure their signings.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Gsbgsb » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:15 pm

Aztec Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:06 pm
Jarrod Bowen was on his way to Palace until we did something we initially didn't want to do and upped our bid to £22m. The club felt it was a gamble at that price but they admired Bowen for a while and didn't want to miss out on the right player.

We spent ages trying to get Kurt Zouma for about £25m. Late in the process, the fee changed to £30m and though we didn't like it and it caused a few nervy days, we thankfully got the right player.

It's funny how the successful signings are never seen as overpays, but the two flops are. It's almost like he's using hindsight to fit his argument. The reality is all four of those players were signed for more than they had previously been valued or wanted at.

Two worked. Two didn't.
Or two were properly scouted, their role and likely contribution identified and two were not. As I have made clear in each post (subtly ignored by you of course) it is not overpaying that is wrong but overpaying for the wrong player.

I repeat do you believe we have refused to pursue the signing of a player we want who is available this window. Simple yes or no question.

If the answer is no do you believe we should then have gone on to sign a player we did not want instead.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by pezza20 » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:15 pm

Aztec Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:06 pm
Jarrod Bowen was on his way to Palace until we did something we initially didn't want to do and upped our bid to £22m. The club felt it was a gamble at that price but they admired Bowen for a while and didn't want to miss out on the right player.

We spent ages trying to get Kurt Zouma for about £25m. Late in the process, the fee changed to £30m and though we didn't like it and it caused a few nervy days, we thankfully got the right player.

It's funny how the successful signings are never seen as overpays, but the two flops are. It's almost like he's using hindsight to fit his argument. The reality is all four of those players were signed for more than they had previously been valued or wanted at.

Two worked. Two didn't.
You can also add in that prices do not determine whether players are good players or they will fit in to your style of play. Soucek for £20m, Coufal for £5m are prim e of examples of excellent players who we paid a pittance for.

Haller and Anderson were signings made by Pelle under a different budget regime, when Sullivan decided he could no longer take fan pressure, brought in a markey manager signing and gave him the most funding any West Ham in history has ever had. Worked ok first season, second was a disaster but shows its not necessarily how much the player costs at the end of the day, that is market driven - and indeed we have paid OTT for a few players but most have turned out ok in the last 2 years under Moyes.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Aztec Hammer » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:19 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:15 pm
Or two were properly scouted, their role and likely contribution identified and two were not. As I have made clear in each post (subtly ignored by you of course) it is not overpaying that is wrong but overpaying for the wrong player.

I repeat do you believe we have refused to pursue the signing of a player we want who is available this window. Simple yes or no question.

If the answer is no do you believe we should then have gone on to sign a player we did not want instead.
What is your actual point? You are writing at me as if I have said we should overpay for the sake of it, just to sign any player. Or that we have refused to pursue the signing of a player that we want. Please show me where I have suggested either of the two things.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Mayday » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:21 pm

Too many of you want instant success.

It takes time and patience to set things out to achieve consistent success and that includes being able to acquire the right players.
It took at least three years for Sir Alex (on the verge of being sacked) to turn around an under performing Man Utd before they started to consistently do well, gradually improving the playing staff, methodology and ideology around the club.
And they were in a much better situation than us from when DM took us over

I believe DM has a plan to achieve this and it may even be that his targets and plans to start to consistently achieve them are for a couple of seasons time and even without Rice et all.

So...my message to you naysayers is just to 'Chill Winston'
Rome was not built in a day.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by LeonRivers » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:21 pm

Wilko1304 wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:01 pm
The problem is that waiting and "go Sully mental" aren't the two options.
The middle ground is “take a risk on a Hugill”.

Also not preferable.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by LeonRivers » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:25 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:05 pm
After all the former approach is what lead to the 50 strikers (or whatever it is) mostly failures in the first place.
It’s 51 failed strikers now. They’ve updated the article:

“Alphonse Areola played a handful of cup games and scored zero goals before being shipped back to France.”

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Gsbgsb » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:28 pm

You, and many others, are bemoaning the lack of signings, providing lists of who we could sign and in some cases indicating a failure to do so shows a lack of ambition to achieve the goal of European qualification.

I question all of this.

For me Moyes has identified his targets, found, at least to date, they are unavailable (or I suspect with Digne financially unachievable) and thus we have signed no-one.

I have zero problem with this result especially if the alternative is the approach previously in place of anyone will do. It is not about overpaying or anything it is all about bringing the right player to the club either short term or long term.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by davids cross » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:29 pm

I honestly believe that some people still don't get what David Moyes is about.....

He's not about the here and now especially......or to try and grab at a short term opportunity, that may or may not pay off.

He thinks long term......like, really long term. And not as a fan thinks.

And if you don't understand that fundamental point about him. You will always carry around too much frustration, especially around transfers. From my point of view, it's probably been the best consecutive seasons for about 40 years....79/80.....and.... 80/81 ....being my best.

He's the old fashion builder. Out of the John Lyall style. And you have to accept that fact about him.

Carry on David.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Doc H Ball » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:29 pm

Helps make players want to play for him as well I guess.

Moyes is not going to be signing some unknown threat to your position on the whim of a video compilation, he’s going to give you a good chance.

I like the way he uses his squad rather than keep looking for others. Might not be the way to ultimately win anything, but I like the stability and ethos.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Wilko1304 » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:31 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:15 pm
Or two were properly scouted, their role and likely contribution identified and two were not. As I have made clear in each post (subtly ignored by you of course) it is not overpaying that is wrong but overpaying for the wrong player.

I repeat do you believe we have refused to pursue the signing of a player we want who is available this window. Simple yes or no question.

If the answer is no do you believe we should then have gone on to sign a player we did not want instead.
That second and third party are impossible to deal with. But the first part is making up a narrative to suit you. Both will have been scouted, there’s no evidence they weren’t.

Some signings just don’t work out, and that’s not always just on the player. It’s worth remembering that Moyes’s record isn’t some Beatles hitlist

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Aceface » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:34 pm

Aztec Hammer wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:06 pm
Jarrod Bowen was on his way to Palace until we did something we initially didn't want to do and upped our bid to £22m. The club felt it was a gamble at that price but they admired Bowen for a while and didn't want to miss out on the right player.
I'm still astounded we got Bowen.

He was an incredibly obvious target and yet we never ever seemed to go for those sort of players. Was certain he would end up at Leicester.

The only comparable one recently is Areola – a transfer so sensible you assume we'd never do it. Especially with a relegated Saltman client waiting in the wings.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Bubbles Fortuna » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:34 pm

Why is Hammerbot so insistent that Caleta-Carr is available on loan all of a sudden? He starts most games for Lyon!

I've been on the Brereton hype train for months, so I hope he's good if he joins.

Who was it who was obsessed with Bowen for years before he joined? I want that gratification.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by S-H » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:35 pm

Bubbles Fortuna wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:34 pm
Who was it who was obsessed with Bowen for years before he joined? I want that gratification.
fmgod, wasn't it?

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Aztec Hammer » Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:35 pm

Gsbgsb wrote:
Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:28 pm
You, and many others, are bemoaning the lack of signings, providing lists of who we could sign and in some cases indicating a failure to do so shows a lack of ambition to achieve the goal of European qualification.

I question all of this.

For me Moyes has identified his targets, found, at least to date, they are unavailable (or I suspect with Digne financially unachievable) and thus we have signed no-one.

I have zero problem with this result especially if the alternative is the approach previously in place of anyone will do. It is not about overpaying or anything it is all about bringing the right player to the club either short term or long term.
I provided that list to MB in response to his feeling that there weren't suitable options for us at CB in January because there was too much risk in taking someone from outside of the Prem.

So I posted a list of a number of well-regarded CBs in football. Making a list of centre backs from outside of the Prem as a reply to MB has nothing to do with bemoaning the lack of signings. I haven't suggested at all that we don't intend or aren't trying to sign someone that we like.

As for if we did fail to sign a centre back in this window, then yes, I would have to say that it shows at worst a lack of, or at best, a failure of ambition to achieve the goal of Europe. Considering it is obvious that the weak link of our team is at CB and it is in reality, the position holding us back at the moment.

This doesn't change that I haven't bemoaned the lack of signings. There are 10 days left. If it's Feb 1st and we haven't brought in a CB, then I will bemoan it and that's when you can accuse me of these things!

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