Coronavirus

[Rays Rock]

Alternatively get down the pub and drink ourselves into ignorance

[666 hammer]

I think that has been government policy.

[Burnley Hammer]

It was good. Centre of London 45mins easy.
The vitamin D thing is interesting. Especially as people with darker skin, from the med, Africa, Asia all suffer in Northern Europe in winter from low vit D. Of course culture's that wrap up suffer more, so shoukd be advised not to on health reasons.

I'm one of the biggest proponents of taking vitamin D.

I do wonder though whether, in some of these studies where they found a correlation with vitamin D levels and COVID severity or death, they should have also looked to see if a correlation also existed with BMI. It is well known that people with a high BMI are more likely to be vitamin D deficient so I'm wondering if, in some of these studies, the vitamin D thing was coincidental.

It's fairly well known that obesity is a risk factor but I'm not quite sure that people realise just how much of a risk factor it is. We're looking at the proportion of COVID deaths having diabetes as a comorbidy something between a fifth and a quarter for the U65 group and by far the most common comorbidity (Alzheimers and Dementia, perhaps predictably, overtakes it in the over 65 group).

And then we have this on the governments own website:

"Being obese or excessively overweight increases the risk of severe illness and death from COVID-19, a new Public Health England (PHE) report confirms.

The report summarises findings from evidence published during the pandemic on the effects of excess weight and obesity on COVID-19. UK and international evidence suggests that being severely overweight puts people at greater risk of hospitalisation, Intensive Care Unit (ICU) admission and death from COVID-19, with risk growing substantially as body mass index (BMI) increases.

The current evidence does not suggest that having excess weight increases people’s chances of contracting COVID-19. However, the data does show that obese people are significantly more likely to become seriously ill and be admitted to intensive care with COVID-19 compared to those with a healthy BMI.

One study found that for people with a BMI of 35 to 40, risk of death from COVID-19 increases by 40% and with a BMI over 40 by 90%, compared to those not living with obesity. Other data found that in intensive care units, 7.9% of critically ill patients with COVID-19 had a BMI over 40 compared with 2.9% of the general population.

Almost two-thirds (63%) of adults in England are overweight or obese, with people aged 55 to 74, those living in deprived areas and certain black, Asian and minority ethnic groups more severely affected."

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/exce ... m-covid-19

So we can see there that the groups listed as more severely affected are the same groups that are said to be more at risk from COVID and also said to be more at risk of having low vitamin D levels.

We also had this news come in back in December that offered an explanation as to why the obese are affected more:

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2021120 ... fat-tissue

The coronavirus appears to evade the body’s immune defenses and “hang out” in fat tissue, which allows it to replicate and trigger a severe immune response, David Kass, MD, a professor of cardiology at Johns Hopkins Medicine, told the Times.

“If you really are very obese, fat is the biggest single organ in your body,” he said.

The coronavirus “can infect that tissue and actually reside there,” he continued. “Whether it hurts it, kills it, or at best, it’s a place to amplify it -- it doesn’t matter. It becomes kind of a reservoir.”

[Burnley Hammer]

Also, whilst a lot has been made of the latest FOI request regarding deaths with no pre-existing conditions, I thought the one from last year was equally - if not more - shocking. It shows that in the first alpha wave between March and June 2020, there were only 101 deaths under the age of 45 that had no pre-existing conditions. This works out at around 0.22% of the total amount of covid related deaths for this period. If we include all age groups then it works out at 9.58%. Just like the most recent FOI request, this information was already available at https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ndandwales

The FOI request is at https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transpar ... tionandage

[666 hammer]

Are you suggesting that the science has been based around data that suits a narrative rather than the data setting the narrative. Imagine if the models where incorrect :shock: all this would be proved to be a costly experiment.
Of course that will never come out as governments, oppositions calling for more lockdown will be shown for lack of leadership.

[DrVenk]

I do wonder though whether, in some of these studies where they found a correlation with vitamin D levels and COVID severity or death, they should have also looked to see if a correlation also existed with BMI.

No study worthy of the name would run a bivariate analysis. All serious studies will be reporting adjusted estimates, i.e. correlation coefficients from multivariate analyses.

Adjusted ratios = correlation net the effect of demographics (age, sex, ethnicity etc.) + lifestyle variables (smoker, obesity, diet etc.)

[Burnley Hammer]

No study worthy of the name would run a bivariate analysis. All serious studies will be reporting adjusted estimates, i.e. correlation coefficients from multivariate analyses.

Adjusted ratios = correlation net the effect of demographics (age, sex, ethnicity etc.) + lifestyle variables (smoker, obesity, diet etc.)

That's very true... I do wonder sometimes though whether they've got their adjustments correct or whether they've accounted for everything. Going off topic a little, I've wondered the same thing about the many (fairly pointless imo) eating meat vs vegetarian studies they've done where the vegetarian group is also more likely to be health conscious, do more exercise, supplement, smoke less, and drink less.

That's not to say I have doubts about vitamin D being a hugely important vitamin when it comes to the immune system - I have no doubt at all. Many vitamins interact with other nutrients though and vitamin D interacts with vitamin A and relies on zinc and magnesium. It would have been nice for someone to do a study looking at levels of all 4 of these nutrients together in relation to hospitalisation and death risk. Deficiency with any of them could have an impact on how well it works.

[Rays Rock]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60083704

Just get on with it.

[Denbighammer]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new ... s-12523252

At least we don't live in New Zealand. 9 cases and Nutty Jacinta cranks up the restrictions again and cancels her own wedding. I guess at least she sticks to the rules she forces on people, unlike some world leaders....

Also, they are vaccinating 5 year olds over there

[Rays Rock]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new ... s-12523252

At least we don't live in New Zealand. 9 cases and Nutty Jacinta cranks up the restrictions again and cancels her own wedding. I guess at least she sticks to the rules she forces on people, unlike some world leaders....

Also, they are vaccinating 5 year olds over there

Yeah, she’s absolutely nuts.

[Burnley Hammer]

Edit: Definitely the wrong thread!

[RichieRiv]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60083704

Just get on with it.

Having managed a team of 20 somethings I could not agree more. They enter the workplace thinking they know it all, yet spend most of their time bleating on about their time at university. It took me 6-12 months to knock them into shape and for them to come to the realisation that they actually knew f*** all, that no one cares about their university days and the ultimate penny drop - they had got themselves into significant debt for a degree that had zero use in their careers.

Allowing them to stay at home simply perpetuates their self-belief that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

[Hummer_I_mean_Hammer]

^^^^ do you have many without degrees working there (at your bank... )

[RichieRiv]

^^^^ do you have many without degrees working there (at your bank... )

Current job, no, because we import talent from India or more the case that India exports to the UK! It's interesting as they refer to me as "The Token" and claim that I was only hired to improve the diversity stats!

Previous jobs, very heavy on the grad recruitment. I once tried to push HR to open the books up for school leavers and modern-day apprenticeships. They fell about the floor laughing. That is typical of the banking industry where I don't work.

[Hummer_I_mean_Hammer]

That is typical of the banking industry where I don't work.

Excellent :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

Having managed a team of 20 somethings I could not agree more. They enter the workplace thinking they know it all, yet spend most of their time bleating on about their time at university. It took me 6-12 months to knock them into shape and for them to come to the realisation that they actually knew **** all, that no one cares about their university days and the ultimate penny drop - they had got themselves into significant debt for a degree that had zero use in their careers.

Allowing them to stay at home simply perpetuates their self-belief that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

On Pointless (yes, I'm that old) it's astonishing how little university students, even those from top ones, actually know.

Question:- Name any country that has hosted the Commonwealth Games.

Oxford PPE undergrad:- Umm, err, Paris?

This may not have happened but it wouldn't surprise me. It's that level of dimmness.

[Monkeybubbles]

Monkeybubbles Jr (24l has colitis, which affects his immune system, which means he could become quite ill if he contracts covid. We've been very careful over the last couple of years, but he tested positive this morning. Probably picked it up from a visiting friend.

My bro-in-law, who's my best mate really, has fairly advanced prostate cancer. He went to hospital a couple of weeks ago for a blood transfusion prior to some chemo, contracted covid, and the infection became sepsis. He's at home now, but just has days to go.

Even though I'm testing negative at the mo, I can't visit him, can I? If I pass covid to my sister and she becomes too ill to look after him, or misses the funeral, or whatever, I couldn't forgive myself.

Saying goodbye on Zoom will be awful.

It's a pickle. And that's without dealing with my lad if he becomes properly ill.

Sorry, just venting really, but also looking for confirmation that I shouldn't visit my bro, I guess.

[S-H]

F*cking hell mate, sorry to hear about your Brother in law, that must be an awful situation for you all to be in.

Hope your boy is ok (I'm sure he will be)

Thoughts with you and your family.

x

[Denbighammer]

Sorry to hear that Monkeybubbles. Hopefully your lad will be OK. This thing dies seem to affect people (or not) in unexpected ways. Fingers crossed it just touches him lightly.

As far as visiting your Brother in law. Personally, I'd go and visit him. You've tested negative, so go and see him. Keep your distance from him a bit maybe (& your sister too for obvious reasons) while your there but if he hasn't long to live then I would say it's probably worth the risk.

I think you might regret it if you don't. However, it is a horrible situation to be in. My sympathies.

[Clacton-ammer]

Go see him Monkey

So sorry to hear of all your news, this ****ing thing does suck at times.