January 2022 Transfer Window

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by stu1 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:55 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:47 am
But Rooney was a generational talent. He is in that top rung of British players with the likes of Best, Law and Dalglish.
But not at Everton which is the whole point.

He had the potential to be a generational talent whilst at Everton which would have made his sale as gutting if not worse than Rice’s, but that is still completely missing the point.

It’s like saying when we sold Rio we had to replace a World Class defender because that’s what he turned into, despite the fact he never was for us.

EDIT: Re-reading your post are you saying Rooney was a level above Gerrard? Very bold statement that.
Last edited by stu1 on Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:58 am

stu1 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:51 am
It’s nonsense.

Rooney scored 9 league goals in his last season at Everton and contributed 1 assist. That’s hardly irreplaceable.

Meanwhile Antonio has scored 8 and assisted 7 this season, despite us being just over half way through the season.

Rice is far more crucial to us than Rooney ever was Everton. Rooney could have been just as important or possibly more important if he’d stayed, but he didn’t he left during the infancy of his career.

It’s an insult to Rice to claim otherwise and completely revisionary.
Oh come on. Rooney was the most exciting player on the planet at the time:

Sir Alex Ferguson said he was delighted to sign a player who he claimed last week would make United's squad as strong as that which won the European Cup in 1999.

"I am very excited. I think we have got the best young player this country has seen in the past 30 years," he said.

"Everyone is delighted by this signing.”

Alan Hansen:

“Rooney is also blessed with the astonishing ability, again for one so young, to know where to go on the pitch, when and why. He is a natural.

“Some people might question the wisdom of Sir Alex Ferguson spending up to £27m on a striker when he has Ruud van Nistelrooy, Alan Smith and Louis Saha at his disposal.

“But Rooney showed at Euro 2004 that he can give you that something extra, which is what United need after not having the best of starts to the season.

“It is clear United would probably have preferred to wait until January or maybe even next summer to get Rooney, but Newcastle's sudden interest has flushed them out and they have had to move now.

“The swift response from Ferguson showed that this was a player he was simply not prepared to miss out on.”

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by stu1 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:02 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:58 am
Oh come on. Rooney was the most exciting player on the planet at the time:

Sir Alex Ferguson said he was delighted to sign a player who he claimed last week would make United's squad as strong as that which won the European Cup in 1999.

"I am very excited. I think we have got the best young player this country has seen in the past 30 years," he said.

"Everyone is delighted by this signing.”

Alan Hansen:

“Rooney is also blessed with the astonishing ability, again for one so young, to know where to go on the pitch, when and why. He is a natural.

“Some people might question the wisdom of Sir Alex Ferguson spending up to £27m on a striker when he has Ruud van Nistelrooy, Alan Smith and Louis Saha at his disposal.

“But Rooney showed at Euro 2004 that he can give you that something extra, which is what United need after not having the best of starts to the season.

“It is clear United would probably have preferred to wait until January or maybe even next summer to get Rooney, but Newcastle's sudden interest has flushed them out and they have had to move now.

“The swift response from Ferguson showed that this was a player he was simply not prepared to miss out on.”
Lots of quotes talking about how good he is for his age and being a young talent etc.

How Man U would have rather waited but didn’t want to miss out.

Yep, a hugely exciting player because of the potential he had shown, the key word being potential.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:05 am

stu1 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:02 am
Lots of quotes talking about how good he is for his age and being a young talent etc.

How many Man U would have rather waited but didn’t want to miss out.

Yep, a hugely exciting player because of the potential he had shown, the key word being potential.
How good for his age? He was the best player at Euro 2004! Talk about revisionism.


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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by steveyrockstar » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:06 am

A Spanish mate reckons that the Spanish press are reporting that we’re close to signing Iago Aspas from Celta Vigo for 10m euros. Can’t believe that’s true as he’s 34. Unless it’s a bold stop gap until the summer.

I can’t see it reported anywhere else.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by The Straw » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:06 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:47 am
Rice is nowhere near the best midfielder in the league. He is arguably the best defensive midfielder in the league though. He is a first class player who will probably reach heights similar to Lampard and Gerrard if he continues to develop. That is a great level for any player.

But Rooney was a generational talent. He is in that top rung of British players with the likes of Best, Law and Dalglish.
Bit harsh on our Declan. You don't have to play for one of the Sly 6 to be one of the best players in the league. Sky would have you believe that Rice going to one of their darlings would take him to another level. I say he would put in the same dominant performances that the does for us but because he plays for one of their preferred clubs then all of a sudden it's made him better overnight.

If he does have to leave then personally I hope he goes to somewhere like Bayern Munich and captains them to absolute CL domination, beating all the English usual suspects again and again.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:12 am

The Straw wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:06 am
Bit harsh on our Declan. You don't have to play for one of the Sly 6 to be one of the best players in the league. Sky would have you believe that Rice going to one of their darlings would take him to another level. I say he would put in the same dominant performances that the does for us but because he plays for one of their preferred clubs then all of a sudden it's made him better overnight.

If he does have to leave then personally I hope he goes to somewhere like Bayern Munich and captains them to absolute CL domination, beating all the English usual suspects again and again.
As I say, I think he is one of the best young players in the league and arguably the best defensive midfielder. He has a long way to go though before you can say he is the best overall midfielder in the league. There is just so much outstanding talent in the Premier League.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by stu1 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:13 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:05 am
How good for his age? He was the best player at Euro 2004! Talk about revisionism.

A tournament where he had 50% of the goal involvement in 4 games as he did in his whole league campaign for Everton.

Clearly you can’t separate the Rooney from Man U to the Rooney for Everton. Were Everton a better team with him, for sure, but was he the heart beat of their team, no.

Rooney was only part way through a sharpe incline in his performances when he left Everton. Rice is far more established.

I’d also like to know who are all these midfielder that he is no where near in the prem? He’s far more than just a defensive midfielder, as shown by the fact he’s carried the ball further forward than any player in the top 5 leagues in Europe this season.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by The Straw » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:14 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:12 am
As I say, I think he is one of the best young players in the league and arguably the best defensive midfielder. He has a long way to go though before you can say he is the best overall midfielder in the league. There is just so much outstanding talent in the Premier League.
For his age though?

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:18 am

The Straw wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:14 am
For his age though?
For his age, of course. I think he’s going to be a top class midfielder at his peak.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by stu1 » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:21 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:18 am
For his age, of course. I think he’s going to be a top class midfielder at his peak.
The irony following our discussion of Rooney’s time at Everton….

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:24 am

stu1 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:13 am
A tournament where he had 50% of the goal involvement in 4 games as he did in his whole league campaign for Everton.

Clearly you can’t separate the Rooney from Man U to the Rooney for Everton. Were Everton a better team with him, for sure, but was he the heart beat of their team, no.

Rooney was only part way through a sharpe incline in his performances when he left Everton. Rice is far more established.

I’d also like to know who are all these midfielder that he is no where near in the prem? He’s far more than just a defensive midfielder, as shown by the fact he’s carried the ball further forward than any player in the top 5 leagues in Europe this season.
Rooney was not a striker though, he was a creative forward. Nine goals in 34 appearances in a single season is a good ratio for a number 10, never mind an 17/18-year old one.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:26 am

stu1 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:21 am
The irony following our discussion of Rooney’s time at Everton….
I’ve already said Rice is a first class player. But the gap between him and Rooney is enormous.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Peaches » Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:21 am

I don’t think Rice will go anywhere except Man City. Chelsea have more midfielders on loan than you can shake a stick at, and need Centre backs much more than a defensive midfielder as Silva will be 38 at the beginning of next season and Christiansen is apparently running his contract down to sign for one of the big Spanish clubs. They have Billy Gilmour and Connor Gallagher and Bakeyoko Man U are looking to song Boubacar Kamara and or Tchoumeni, and Liverpool are after Dennis Zakaria. All 3 of them are trying to sign Frank Kessie on a free in the summer. If we keep our valuation of Rice at £120M to £150M even the big clubs will look for alternatives.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Gsbgsb » Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:39 am

Rice’s contract is to 2024 with an option to extend for 12 months I believe. It also assumes he continues to decline to sign a new deal. If this is right then I doubt anyone will meet the valuation this summer. We can pretty much demand what we want when he has 3 years left on his deal.

However well he performs/progresses the “big clubs” know it will likely be no more, possibly less, in 2023 because that will be the window we have to sell. After then he is a diminishing asset. If he is really valued at £120m now it is probably £100m in 2023 and around £50-£60m in 2024 with 12 months left.

The “big clubs” then match that to their own team building needs. The team with the immediate need is Man Utd but they face the price problem in a purchase this summer. They may hang on for the lower price as with Sancho as the contract runs down but by then Chelsea for example have 12 more months to assess their own young talent but both Kante and Jorginho are likely gone so the is a Rice shaped hole there as well.

Whoever we buy unless by some miracle we are challenging to win the PL (not finish 4th) Rice is going likely in 18 months if he is seen by others as being as good as we all believe he is.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by LeonRivers » Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:51 am

The Straw wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:06 am
Bit harsh on our Declan. You don't have to play for one of the Sly 6 to be one of the best players in the league. Sky would have you believe that Rice going to one of their darlings would take him to another level
Glenn Hoddle says he is already the best player in the league. :thup:

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:05 am

stu1 wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:55 am


EDIT: Re-reading your post are you saying Rooney was a level above Gerrard? Very bold statement that.
Rooney was in a different tier to Gerrard. At his best Rooney was on the level of the Zidane, Messi types.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by CarltonColesLeftFoot » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:24 am

Ironing Board wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:05 am
Rooney was in a different tier to Gerrard. At his best Rooney was on the level of the Zidane, Messi types.
So was Gerrard, at his best IMO.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by Ironing Board » Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:37 am

CarltonColesLeftFoot wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:24 am
So was Gerrard, at his best IMO.
Gerrard was a great box to box midfielder, but he was never quite in that tier for me. It’s fine margins of course, but Rooney had sheer, unadulterated, God-given talent.

The only other English player with that sort of talent that I’ve seen was Paul Gascoigne.

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Re: January 2022 Transfer Window

Post by NedN » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:24 am

My God we really are starved for transfer news aren’t we, discussing Rooney for two pages…

We aren’t Everton, we aren’t Man U, there has to be a different thread to talk about whether Wayne Rooney was a generational talent and whether him and Gerard were same level.

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