Russian invasion of Ukraine

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delbert
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by delbert »

For some reason they're fixated with having buffer countries around them, that's not really compatible when sharing a continent with others.....
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by sendô »

TBH I'd say that it is not in NATO's strategic interest for Finland to join NATO.

Finland as a neutral non-aligned state suited both sides. The primary perceived invasion route is across the northern European plain, so northern Germany, Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic states are strategically important. Finland is not.

Putin invading Ukraine has scared Finland into NATO's camp, but now NATO have a long front line to man, on a route that would almost certainly never see an invasion by Russia.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by EvilC »

delbert wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:43 pm For some reason they're fixated with having buffer countries around them, that's not really compatible when sharing a continent with others.....
It's because of the NATO aggression, comrade. Disband it immediately, and spend the money on turnips.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by bonzosbeard »

I thought at one stage 20 plus years ago there was talk of Russia joining Nato. How times change.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

sendô wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:46 pm.

Putin invading Ukraine has scared Finland into NATO's camp, but now NATO have a long front line to man, on a route that would almost certainly never see an invasion by Russia.
Finland is also very easy to defend. Five blokes and a dog held off the Red Army.

It also allows NATO to deploy missiles etc very close to Russia
The very thing Putin was worried about with Ukraine.

It is a strategic gain for NATO for me and a massive own goal by Putin given they would have happily stayed neutral.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

delbert wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:43 pm For some reason they're fixated with having buffer countries around them, that's not really compatible when sharing a continent with others.....
To be fair to them, other nations have been trying to undermine Russia since 1918 so some of the paranoia is understandable.

Even pre Soviet times quite a few of those buffer countries were Russian as well.

How long did it take for us to give up our claims to parts of France? 300 years?

The cartographers have a lot to answer for the world over...
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by southbrishammer »

bonzosbeard wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:02 pm I thought at one stage 20 plus years ago there was talk of Russia joining Nato. How times change.
What would Nato do if one Nato country invaded another Nato country?
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by bonzosbeard »

southbrishammer wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:49 pm What would Nato do if one Nato country invaded another Nato country?
No idea but there is a lot online about Putin wanting to join at one time.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by sendô »

MB wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 2:58 pm Finland is also very easy to defend. Five blokes and a dog held off the Red Army.

It also allows NATO to deploy missiles etc very close to Russia
The very thing Putin was worried about with Ukraine.

It is a strategic gain for NATO for me and a massive own goal by Putin given they would have happily stayed neutral.
NATO could already deploy missiles etc very close to Russia in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

There is no doubt though that this is a massive own goal by Putin.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

Probably blunts the Russian attack a bit in the East. This is near where they'd made the biggest advances recently

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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Samba »

bonzosbeard wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 11:49 am I heard the arguments from nato as to why its good for security but Russia say it could cause war.
I'm stuck between our right to defend ourselves but are we doing more harm than good.
I don't want to be living my last month with radiation sickness thinking we were right in principle.
Don't worry bb, Vlad won't be nuking anyone.
I bet my life on it..
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

Interesting happenings along the Finnish/Swedish border

A US refuelling tanker out of Mildenhall has flown up the Norwegian coast, across the top and down the Finnish border with Sweden. There's also a Swedish airforce Gulfstream flying along their border with Finland.

Something to do with Finland wanting to join NATO asap or just coincidence?
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

Russia loses battalion in failed river crossing

More on reports that Russian forces failed in an attempt to make a river crossing in eastern Ukraine - losing almost an entire battalion tactical group in the process.
It is a scene of absolute devastation - an attempt to flank Ukrainian defences gone disastrously wrong.
The burned-out shells of Russian tanks and armoured vehicles line the east bank of the Siversky Donets river, west of Severodonetsk in the Luhansk region.
Half-built pontoon bridges jut into the water.
It’s thought almost an entire battalion of vehicles was lost - it’s not known how many men were killed.
In its morning briefing, the UK's Ministry of Defence says what happened shows the increasing pressure on Russian commanders.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:33 am Russia loses battalion in failed river crossing

More on reports that Russian forces failed in an attempt to make a river crossing in eastern Ukraine - losing almost an entire battalion tactical group in the process.
It is a scene of absolute devastation - an attempt to flank Ukrainian defences gone disastrously wrong.
The burned-out shells of Russian tanks and armoured vehicles line the east bank of the Siversky Donets river, west of Severodonetsk in the Luhansk region.
Half-built pontoon bridges jut into the water.
It’s thought almost an entire battalion of vehicles was lost - it’s not known how many men were killed.
In its morning briefing, the UK's Ministry of Defence says what happened shows the increasing pressure on Russian commanders.
These are the pictures I posted above JBB. Massive loss if only the equipment, but strategically very important as well as that was the force meant to encircle the Ukrainian positions. If they have succeeded then there could have been a (local) collapse.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

That was an astonishing loss. Was reading about it elsewhere - as someone said, and it made sense to this non-military expert, one of the hardest military manoeuvres to execute is crossing a river where you don't control both banks. At the start of the war, when it was believed that Russia would win and win quickly, such a move would have looked like complacent arrogance. In the light of the Russian armed forces' performance it now looks just desperate.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Puff Daddy »

I think a battalion consists of about 1,500 men
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

Puff Daddy wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 11:57 am I think a battalion consists of about 1,500 men
A Russian BTG is about 1100. Should be more but they were lacking infantry before they even invaded and losses since have hampered them.

The reports I've read suggest this was a mixture of a couple of BTGs (based on the equipment) as they try and piece together what from units already smashed up elsewhere.

Even then I doubt it would be more than 500 or so casualties as the artillery and other support elements wouldn't have been at the crossing.

Still a big loss.

They are making gains elsewhere on the same part of the front and it sounds like they are using massed artillery.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

This is also scary for the future of war. Commercial drone dropping a 2kg bomb (homemade) on a truck. Plenty of videos out there include one where they drop the bomb on a rocket depot.

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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by wolf359 »

MB wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:49 pm This is also scary for the future of war. Commercial drone dropping a 2kg bomb (homemade) on a truck. Plenty of videos out there include one where they drop the bomb on a rocket depot.
I'd imagine ISIS and others are taking notes. Scary stuff.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by MB »

wolf359 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:56 pm I'd imagine ISIS and others are taking notes. Scary stuff.
Probably where these guys got the idea. I remember watching footage from.the BBC when they followed the Iraqi army in the recapture of Mosul and ISIS were dropping grenades from drones back then!
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