The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

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HammerAl
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by HammerAl » Mon May 23, 2022 11:42 am

Wilko1304 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 11:27 am
Read through these pages to see that Fornals needs replacing and goes hiding. The boy can have bad games, but he never hides. If you're in a position where you want Fornals replacing, then the only player worth keeping is Rice. We have a player who goes missing if he's not on it, and he's adored universally.
He never hides, he always works really hard, and is a good member of the squad. I know you love him, Wilko, but he’s had a LOT of games this season where he’s been really bad, and that’s not for the lack of trying, or him being low on confidence, or anything else, other than everything he’s tried, whether that’s cute little flicks or simple passes, hasn’t come off. His performances have declined a lot since he welcomed his baby boy (whether that’s just a coincidence or not I’m not sure) and he needs to really up his game again next season to hold down a place in the starting XI. I like him as a player and as a person, but I’ve found myself, especially in the second half of the season, getting really frustrated with him.

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by DusseldorfHammer » Mon May 23, 2022 11:44 am

I am Legend wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 10:50 am
Losing Ogbonna in November basically ruined our PL campaign. It was the catalyst for the season coming to a slow decline. For a brief moment with Zouma and Ogbonna, we looked like a top 4 defence, at least the CB position.

We had enough for the EL still thanks to so much effort from the players but its just too much.
Losing Ogbonna, Dawson playing despite being injured and Zouma clearly rushed back to have at least two centre backs available. Dawson's effort was just immense. Zouma never looked solid since coming back from injury. Having to deal with that issue plus Fabianski not looking convincing at all during the finsl third of our league season was just enough to look solid at the back.

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MB
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by MB » Mon May 23, 2022 11:45 am

Aceface wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 11:07 am
We’d shipped 2 against the likes of Newcastle, Palace and Brentford before September had ended. Ogbonna’s injury wasn’t helpful but it would be self-defeating to believe we were watertight before then.
Don't think anyone was saying it was perfect, but we were bedding in Zouma and Coufal wasn't fit. We also had Cresswell...

I also don't think many want to see Ogbonna as a starter next season. We just need a younger version of what he does plus a decent left back to go with it.

Watching right footed centre halves try and cover the space on the left still triggers PTSD!

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Mon May 23, 2022 11:50 am

claretchris wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 11:35 am
What we need are players that can give us an alternative when the likes of Antonio, Soucek and Fornals aren't performing - They all have valuable and large roles to play, but at the moment when a game is getting away from us there's no twist, it's just stick and hope it works out.
and this is Moyes' biggest failing for me
Insisting that any signings have top be as good or better than the players in the 'first team'
that is not realistic, and is very short sighted
there is not a single club in the world where squad players/ substitutes are as good as the core members of the first team

allthe players we sign don't have to be as good as what we have in all areas, they just need to be, either:

A) better than the tired/ off-form versions of our best players
B) better than our weaker first team players e.g Cresswell (as an example)
C) better than the squad players we currently have
D) Offer something different/ allow us to play a different way if required

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by GPW » Mon May 23, 2022 11:51 am

We do need some combination of upgrade and depth upfront but our real issues have been in defence. Too many goals conceded, many of them soft, often late in games. Yesterday a case in point - conceding 3 second half goals to a Brighton team that had scored a total of 39 goals in their 37 other games this season.

We need upgrades to our starting XI at LB, CB, CM (to compliment/rotate Rice and Soucek) and GK (presumably Areola signing and playing as #1). We then need more players Moyes trusts and is prepared to use in a real games. With the subs increasing to 5 next season playing the same 11 every week with the same 2-3 subs rotating on 70 mins is not going to keep up.

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by HammerAl » Mon May 23, 2022 11:55 am

MB wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 11:45 am
Watching right footed centre halves try and cover the space on the left still triggers PTSD!
Dick Van Dijk is pretty good there.

Even our very on Winston was a beast at LCB!

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Wilko1304 » Mon May 23, 2022 11:58 am

HammerAl wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 11:42 am
He never hides, he always works really hard, and is a good member of the squad. I know you love him, Wilko, but he’s had a LOT of games this season where he’s been really bad, and that’s not for the lack of trying, or him being low on confidence, or anything else, other than everything he’s tried, whether that’s cute little flicks or simple passes, hasn’t come off. His performances have declined a lot since he welcomed his baby boy (whether that’s just a coincidence or not I’m not sure) and he needs to really up his game again next season to hold down a place in the starting XI. I like him as a player and as a person, but I’ve found myself, especially in the second half of the season, getting really frustrated with him.
Oh he undoubtedly suffered when we had all those games in winter and no rotation, his form was poor around mid-December through to February? He's suffered as much as Antonio or Soucek with all the games (considering he's been involved with Spain, too). But I don't think he's had many more bad games than Bowen, he just gets heavily involved regardless. Even in his bad games, he still does good things.

It's mainly expectation. If you're replacing Fornals, there's justification that we could go out and buy in every position except where Rice is. We also talk about Cresswell being our weakest starter, and Fornals manages to play left wing back, left wing, and get across into central positions. And probably key to our pressing.

There's fair criticism and there's making things up like saying he's hiding. His consistency dipped as the crush of games came again late season, but that's a squad issue. I think a lot of people are forgetting many of our players are not able to perform to their best because they are flogged. Vlasic, Benrahma, Yarmolenko, Noble, Kral, Masuaku - they're our best bench options and none are good enough to give the support needed to the first team, let alone be a major influence on it.

Antonio, Fornals, Bowen, Soucek and even Rice have more to come with a better squad.

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Mon May 23, 2022 12:06 pm

HammerPDC wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 9:40 am
On paper yes, and I do like Kamara too but perhaps Moyes is looking for something different. Especially in this thread there does tend to be a tendency to look at the activity of Villa, Everton, Leicester to name a few and work ourselves up thinking why didn't we go for them,

I agree -

Kamara looks an exciting proposition especially on a ' Free ' but he reportedly wanted £150k per week and that can upset the wage structure at a club like ours so better to look at a player like Brownhill who might come with a fee but won't upset the dressing room . There's a lot to consider when getting new players in .

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by HammerAl » Mon May 23, 2022 12:07 pm

Yep, whoever has said he’s hiding has pretty much just made that up. And I agree, even when he’s been bad he can produce good moments (apart from yesterday :lol:) but I think that’s where the frustration comes in for me; you can see the pass he made against City for Bowen’s first goal and other quality moments he produces, and then how aimlessly and carelessly he can give the ball away in other times, often in dangerous areas at both ends of the pitch.

I do think a better defensive left-back would allow us to bring in a “proper” left-winger and move Fornals into the middle, where we’d get a better and more consistent output from him.

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by TommyHammer » Mon May 23, 2022 12:08 pm

HammerAl wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:07 pm
Yep, whoever has said he’s hiding has pretty much just made that up. And I agree, even when he’s been bad he can produce good moments (apart from yesterday :lol:) but I think that’s where the frustration comes in for me; you can see the pass he made against City for Bowen’s first goal and other quality moments he produces, and then how aimlessly and carelessly he can give the ball away in other times, often in dangerous areas at both ends of the pitch.

I do think a better defensive left-back would allow us to bring in a “proper” left-winger and move Fornals into the middle, where we’d get a better and more consistent output from him.
Absolutely.

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MB
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by MB » Mon May 23, 2022 12:11 pm

HammerAl wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 11:55 am
Dick Van Dijk is pretty good there.

Even our very on Winston was a beast at LCB!
So we just need to sign the best centre half in the world...

Joking aside, it isn't the right footedness so much as they are dealing with it near our own 18 yard box and with Cresswell too far away to help offer an easy out ball. They therefore have to try and control it, move it to their right and find one of Rice, Soucek or the keeper. All while under pressure. Ogbonna could just take it on his left and knock it down the line.

We play two (decent) defensive midfielders and still leak. I'm shocked Moyes hasn't done more about it and the twenty odd million spent on Vlasic...

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Crouchend_Hammer » Mon May 23, 2022 12:11 pm

Wilko1304 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 11:58 am


Vlasic, Benrahma, Yarmolenko, Noble, Kral, Masuaku - they're our best bench options and none are good enough to give the support needed to the first team, let alone be a major influence on it.

Yes, they are
They proved that in the League Cup, and some have proved it in the league

We don't play the best teams every week, and the players mentioned above are plenty good enough to be in the team and get results agsint most of the Premier League. You don't have to play them all at the same time

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by ironilunga » Mon May 23, 2022 12:13 pm

The Old Man of Storr wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:06 pm
better to look at a player like Brownhill.
My concern is that Moyes will not put players in his first eleven unless they are better than what he has.

We really must avoid getting players in to warm our Kral (what our bench is now called in honour of its longest incumbent).

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by bubbles1966 » Mon May 23, 2022 12:19 pm

In the last eight league games, we have thrown away eight points in the second half of matches and have conceded an early second half goal on six occasions.

Tiredness? Lack of concentration? A failure to use the bench properly?

I think at least three goals have come from basic throw-ins on our left side.

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by HammerAl » Mon May 23, 2022 12:20 pm

MB wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:11 pm
So we just need to sign the best centre half in the world...

Joking aside, it isn't the right footedness so much as they are dealing with it near our own 18 yard box and with Cresswell too far away to help offer an easy out ball. They therefore have to try and control it, move it to their right and find one of Rice, Soucek or the keeper. All while under pressure. Ogbonna could just take it on his left and knock it down the line.

We play two (decent) defensive midfielders and still leak. I'm shocked Moyes hasn't done more about it and the twenty odd million spent on Vlasic...
No, I do agree. A left-footed LCB would be great and provide the defence with a lot of balance. I think we could do with three starting defenders alongside Zouma (not going to happen I know but I genuinely think we need it).

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Burnley Hammer » Mon May 23, 2022 12:21 pm

Fornals had a terrible game yesterday... but at least he tries to make things happen unlike a certain other 'attacking' player we have. He just needs a good long rest and to get his mojo back.

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by The Old Man of Storr » Mon May 23, 2022 12:21 pm

ironilunga wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:13 pm
My concern is that Moyes will not put players in his first eleven unless they are better than what he has.

We really must avoid getting players in to warm our Kral (what our bench is now called in honour of its longest incumbent).
For certain positions I'd be looking at players who are better than what we have but for other positions I'd be looking at players which are as good as what we have now - if that makes any sense ?

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Wilko1304 » Mon May 23, 2022 12:22 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:11 pm
Yes, they are
They proved that in the League Cup, and some have proved it in the league

We don't play the best teams every week, and the players mentioned above are plenty good enough to be in the team and get results agsint most of the Premier League. You don't have to play them all at the same time
No they're not. Because we dont use them nearly enough in the league - Benrahma aside, but I'm not getting into Benrahma issues with you, Crouchie - and whilst they are good enough on paper, all things being level, to get into the team against the poorer sides, we need better players giving us more so that we can trust them in more games, rotate more, influence off the bench more. And win those games, and we have failed in some silly games this year. We all saw how bad we were in midfield against Leeds without Soucek, we've drawn twice with Burnley. On paper they are good enough, but...

They proved in the League Cup that they were good enough for a League Cup run.

Yarmolenko, Noble and Masuaku have done a job, but it's bits and moments, where they should be much more involved. They need to be players you would want to bring on in big games, who push us to make changes to the starting XI, who you know are going to be very important in other games against certain opposition. Benrahma is the only one who has done any of that

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by HammerAl » Mon May 23, 2022 12:24 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:
Mon May 23, 2022 12:19 pm
In the last eight league games, we have thrown away eight points in the second half of matches and have conceded an early second half goal on six occasions.

Tiredness? Lack of concentration? A failure to use the bench properly?

I think at least three goals have come from basic throw-ins on our left side.
I think a mixture of all three, and possibly (simply) that we’ve lacked the required quality in areas. We seem to concede a LOT of poor goals and very rarely concede goals where the opposition have carved us open with brilliant play or by scoring a worldie.

We really need to cut out the basic errors and tighten up at set pieces to push on.

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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by I am Legend » Mon May 23, 2022 12:28 pm

danm79 wrote:
Sun May 22, 2022 11:57 pm
Happy to confirm to a moderator a source of the info. Far from speculative or haphazard, wasn’t told names but was from a good source but won’t both sharing and further info.
Why are people sharing info so sensitive? Who cares what people think or say about it. If people want to share info and give source to mods then great and some appreciate it. I assume people aren't doing it for praise or to be liked, so peoples responses don't matter.

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