The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

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I am Legend
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by I am Legend »

Liam wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:54 am I wonder if the rotation that Moyes made against Norwich was an indication of how he wants to play against the smaller teams (those that we dropped loads of points against this season). Putting a ball player alongside Rice.
I absolutely hope so. I've been wanting that all season. Play Fornals and Lanzini/new player in the CM and have Benny, Bowen, new LW on the wings.

Makes a huge difference, especially against the smaller teams who try to 'play'.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by westlondonhammer »

Diogenes wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:48 am I agree with that. Some seem to want to put each player under a microscope and dissect each individual flaw and/or attribute. What we tend to forget is, it is not about 'each' individual but the team as a 'whole' where we (West Ham) are strongest. Soucek is very much a big part of that and when we consider any new additions it will be as much about 'fitting in' and temperament etc. than just individual talent.
MB had it spot on a few weeks ago... we seem to often focus on what a player doesn't bring rather than does bring for some players when it is convenient; Soucek, Benrahma, Fornals, Lanzini, Antonio all get hit with this.

If someone who can name a player who does everything Soucek can do but is also a more expansive passer than great... I'm not sure I know one. McTominy certainly isn't.

So you'll lose something by replacing him in the middle of the park. So allow him to do what he does great and then play a simple pass to someone who is a better passer of the ball.

Saying that, we do need quality alternatives to enable him (and Rice), the ability to rest every now and then
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by fjthegrey »

ironilunga wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:55 am We don’t need to upgrade Soucek, we need to bring in a player of better or comparable quality to share the load with him and Rice.
Yeah it's probably the right call.

I'd still be content to take the money though, if it were going directly into a replacement.

I reckon you could get Bissouma for that sort of money.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by ironilunga »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:57 am Rice has his wings clipped to accommodate Soucek.
Declan Rice is a world class defensive midfielder. Soucek plays the more offensive role in the partnership better than Rice. Soucek’s goal tally halved this year due to a more restrained role. This is one of the issues that impacted our final points tally imo.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Burnley Hammer »

Liam wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:54 am I wonder if the rotation that Moyes made against Norwich was an indication of how he wants to play against the smaller teams (those that we dropped loads of points against this season). Putting a ball player alongside Rice.

If Moyes wants to do that against bigger teams he will need more trust in all other positions, CB, Fullbacks and wingers.
I'd argue that every signing we make from now on should be a ball player. There's no reason why a ball player can't also have other attributes. Players shouldn't be bought purely on physical traits. First and foremost, they should be a footballer. This is the type of approach that Brighton have taken and they are very very close to being a side qualifying for Europe. They'll be competing for our spot next season. Every player in the team should be fully capable of linking up fluently when we have the ball and we go forward. If we want to progress and we want to move forward then we need to try and move on from being the team that works hard out of possession and counter attacks. Other teams have learnt how to counter what we do. We have a fairly small selection of passages of play that we try and do over and over again. It's become incredibly predictable to watch. We need to start varying it and we need players that are capable of doing this. That means shaking things up a bit and may also mean making some unpopular decisions.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Aztec Hammer »

westlondonhammer wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:00 pm MB had it spot on a few weeks ago... we seem to often focus on what a player doesn't bring rather than does bring for some players when it is convenient; Soucek, Benrahma, Fornals, Lanzini, Antonio all get hit with this.

If someone who can name a player who does everything Soucek can do but is also a more expansive passer than great... I'm not sure I know one. McTominy certainly isn't.

So you'll lose something by replacing him in the middle of the park. So allow him to do what he does great and then play a simple pass to someone who is a better passer of the ball.

Saying that, we do need quality alternatives to enable him (and Rice), the ability to rest every now and then
Or we sign someone who doesn't do everything Soucek can do but is simply better at football and so makes us better.

Most of the players you mention above that you think get an unfair time from the fans. Do you notice that they aren't Declan Rice, Jarrod Bowen or Kurt Zouma? It's because they aren't as good, and so people are more open to discussing how we can improve on them. It's not done out of some sinister desire to want to drag them down. It's just because they are clearly the starting players we have that can be most easily improved upon.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by sussexhammer74 »

What is the record for the number of posts on a transfer thread?

I reckon this thread might smash that record.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Aztec Hammer »

ironilunga wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:03 pm Declan Rice is a world class defensive midfielder. Soucek plays the more offensive role in the partnership better than Rice. Soucek’s goal tally halved this year due to a more restrained role. This is one of the issues that impacted our final points tally imo.
Declan Rice is an infinitely better footballer than Tomas Soucek. We should not be limiting a world-class footballer just because it means Soucek can score a few more headers and tap-ins over the course of a season.

Soucek has been an important part of getting us out of the doldrums and establishing a bit of a meanness that we needed. But as fj said, he is not a special or irreplaceable player by any stretch of the imagination.

There is a valid line of thinking that we now need to progress away from a style of play that requires Soucek into a more fluid footballing one if we really want to compete for the Top 4 and Top 6.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by ironilunga »

sussexhammer74 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:04 pm What is the record for the number of posts on a transfer thread?

I reckon this thread might smash that record.
Its a lot of fun for a lot of folk.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by El brooko79 »

ironilunga wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:03 pm Declan Rice is a world class defensive midfielder. Soucek plays the more offensive role in the partnership better than Rice. Soucek’s goal tally halved this year due to a more restrained role. This is one of the issues that impacted our final points tally imo.
Soucek has a nack of getting in the box. But Rice is far better offensively in respect of creativity and moving forward.

Soucek is a DM and isn't good enough to play further forward imo. His goals from open play are what 5 a season and a bonus for us.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by YorksHammer »

steveyrockstar wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:02 am It worries me that on top of the departing players we need to replace and squad holes we need to fill, we're all potentially looking to replace some first-teamers like Soucek.
It's just silly. We won't be selling guaranteed first teamers this summer. And beyond a starting eleven we only have five other players with any type of first team experience for us who will still be here if contracts aren't renewed for the couple of important players we have where they are expiring (Ogbonna, Fabianski).

Seriously, all this talk of needing players because our squad hasn't been deep enough and it seems some are keen to cut off our nose to spite our face and quickly shift some players out without a replacement. Ogbonna could come back as half the player he was - he could even not make it through pre-season if it's not fully healed - and some would have us sell one of the other three CBs in the squad so that even if we did sign a new one we'd be left with three CBs.

Get the 'ins' done first, then worry about the 'outs' if it's possible to replace them with another 'in'. No point in adding 4 or 5 players to then sell two and leave us with a short squad again.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by bubbles1966 »

westlondonhammer wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:00 pm MB had it spot on a few weeks ago... we seem to often focus on what a player doesn't bring rather than does bring for some players when it is convenient; Soucek, Benrahma, Fornals, Lanzini, Antonio all get hit with this.

If someone who can name a player who does everything Soucek can do but is also a more expansive passer than great... I'm not sure I know one. McTominy certainly isn't.

So you'll lose something by replacing him in the middle of the park. So allow him to do what he does great and then play a simple pass to someone who is a better passer of the ball.

Saying that, we do need quality alternatives to enable him (and Rice), the ability to rest every now and then
McTominay is much better in possession than Soucek who is extremely limited on the ball.

People keep asking how we have been worked out - well, there are some very obvious things to do against us

1 Keep the ball away from those who can pass it (Lanzini, Rice) and force it towards those who can't (Soucek is the #1 candidate, followed by Dawson)

2. Force it towards those who will panic and can't pick a pass under pressure - same two + fabianski

3. Tell your right hand side player just to stand in front or slightly outside of Cresswell's position - he has no right foot, cannot dribble, has no pace and will pass the ball backwards and infield all game.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Tue May 24, 2022 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Burnley Hammer »

ironilunga wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:03 pm Declan Rice is a world class defensive midfielder. Soucek plays the more offensive role in the partnership better than Rice. Soucek’s goal tally halved this year due to a more restrained role. This is one of the issues that impacted our final points tally imo.
If by offensive role you mean popping up in the box to score then yes, I agree. And he still does that - his shots per game have dropped a little (but not as much as a half) but he's still had a considerable amount of scoring opportunities this season. Pretty sure it averages at around 1.3 per game which is the 4th highest in the squad. The fact he's had less may have more to do with the fact we've looked tired since Christmas and have under-performed in the league.

If by offensive role you mean build up play when we go forward then no, he's nowhere near as good as Rice (and Rice isn't that great either due to his risk aversion). To progress as a team, our attacking players need to be far better on the ball than Soucek is. He's a defensive midfielder and always has been. He was a defensive midfielder for Slavia Prague and was still scoring plenty.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by YorksHammer »

El brooko79 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:09 pm Soucek has a nack of getting in the box. But Rice is far better offensively in respect of creativity and moving forward.

Soucek is a DM and isn't good enough to play further forward imo. His goals from open play are what 5 a season and a bonus for us.
Ah yes, the famed Declan Rice creativity which sees him make 0.1 more key passes per game than Tomas Soucek, a lumbering oaf.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by MB »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:04 pm Or we sign someone who doesn't do everything Soucek can do but is simply better at football and so makes us better...
... at one aspect of the game.

That's the point. Yes you improve the middle third, but you weaken us in the other two thirds. You can compensate for that, but it probably means at least one more signing.

It is nowhere near as simple as you make out.

I say this as someone not opposed to replacing anyone outside of "the big three", I just ask for some recognition that what is lost has to be compensated for either tactically and/or with additional players coming in.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by DusseldorfHammer »

Soucek will start next to Rice next season.

Moyes won't break that duo.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by ironilunga »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:07 pm There is a valid line of thinking that we now need to progress away from a style of play that requires Soucek into a more fluid footballing one if we really want to compete for the Top 4 and Top 6.
If it’s not broken don’t fix it - add to it.

We achieved top 6 last season by playing Soucek in a more offensive role. As a pair they were talked about by many as the best midfield partnership in the prem - not so much this season.

Dismantling our team is not imo the way to advance our fortunes and make us dazzle!!!
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Burnley Hammer »

bubbles1966 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:10 pm McTominay is much better in possession than Soucek who is extremely limited on the ball.

People keep asking how we have been worked out - well, there are some very obvious things to do against us

1 Keep the ball away from those who can pass it (Lanzini, Rice) and force it towards those who can't (Soucek is the #1 candidate, followed by Dawson)

2. Force it towards those who will panic and can't pick a pass under pressure - same two + fabianski

3. Tell your right hand side player just to stand in front or slightly outside of Cresswell's position - he has no right foot, cannot dribble, has no pace and will pass the ball backwards and infield all game.
4. Prevent the full-backs from crossing the ball.

5. Watch Antonio and the two wide forwards very closely. Nobody else is threatening enough. Close those players off and Rice, Lanzini, and Cresswell will spend the rest of the match passing it between them in pretty triangles.

Any half decent manager should have spotted how to nullify us long ago. I don't think our poor performances since Christmas have purely been because we're tired.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Benaloon »

What's the deal with this Valentin castellanos then?

Good numbers, but it's the MLS... actually any good?
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by 1895Hammer »

ashbanki wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:57 am I think the real issue,as regards Soucek is that he and Rice both want to be the box to box CM.
And that’s where we need to be very careful…. We moved Soucek to accommodate Rice’s wish to be “ box to box” while still better as a defensive than offensive player, and reduced Souceks effectiveness as a result. If Rice goes, as most likely next summer, we’ll look a bit silly if we’ve already lost Soucek and are back to scratch. Ideally we need a 3rd cm of similar quality who all understand there’ll be rotation, occasionally we play all 3, but no one of them can dictate to the others or the club. Love Rice to bits but allowing him to decide where he plays to the detriment of others is a dangerous game when he won’t sign a new deal. We need 3 first choice cm’s with an adequate 4th as back up, 64 games this season still equates to 40 each for 3 players, and that ignoring substitutions.
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