The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

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Crouchend_Hammer
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

MB wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 7:37 am I know that this is coming from a good place, just like the other posters who want more youth coming through the ranks but it basically comes down to they aren’t good enough or they would play.

There isn’t some great conspiracy to hold the youngsters back. If they were good enough, mentally and physically strong enough then they’d play. 10 minutes here and there as a sub doesn’t change that equation.

We have this every year. The names change, but the facts stay the same. Player X gets bigged up as the next big thing and ends up playing in League One or League Two at best. You can count the players we’ve released who have ended up playing in the premier league on one hand,
Whilst I agree with that overall, we can't have to bear in mind that, generally, Moyes is a conservative and pragmatic manager.

He isn't one for taking unnecessary risks and playing young players is a risky choice so it isn't a surprise we haven't seen more of them under Moyes

I am.not saying Moyes is right or wrong in this case btw. Just that it is the reality of the situation
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MB
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by MB »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 8:42 am Whilst I agree with that overall, we can't have to bear in mind that, generally, Moyes is a conservative and pragmatic manager.

He isn't one for taking unnecessary risks and playing young players is a risky choice so it isn't a surprise we haven't seen more of them under Moyes

I am.not saying Moyes is right or wrong in this case btw. Just that it is the reality of the situation
Rice, Ngakia and Johnson says you are wrong. How many youngsters played in the Zagreb game?

I don't see any difference between Moyes, Bilic and Pellegrini which says the problem isn't the manager.
Bristoliron338
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Bristoliron338 »

Cuenca 'ammer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 2:08 am another one who doesn't bother to read a post..just follow along with another idiot that sees "Benrahma" "sell" "15M"

WHAT !!!!

doesn't bother to read what was written.

an example was posted of how a player's transfer fee is spread over the length of his contract for depreciation book value purposes.

and how that if you buy "x" player (in this case for example purposes Benrahma) divided by the length of his contract, take how long he plays, depreciate each year by the divided sum, sell "x" player then whatever he sells for, is either a profit, a negative balance, a positive balance, or a loss.

see bubbles1966 further explanation as to how the book valuation of ANY player works.
He's still trying to make excuses for selling benrahma at 15m! We get it, you don't like him very much.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Aceface »

My_Sobriquet wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 8:20 am
So many examples in there of him skinning his marker, bursting into a promising position and then electing to toe poke it tamely at the keeper.

We have never really coached this out of Antonio, he is a lot like Antonio with many of the strengths but also the floors which is why - just like Antonio - his goals and assists tallies are patchy at best.
I suppose the difference is how much time there is to shape it. Antonio is 32 and Broja is a contemporary of the academy players who turned out against Zagreb. Somewhat surprisingly he’s only two months older than Harrison Ashby (and younger than Alese) so theoretically there’s a fair bit of road there to mould something in future.

Known prem quantities tend to incur an excitement penalty in the transfer market - to me signing Broja belongs in the same punt category as signing Castellanos from the MLS or Lewis-Potter from Hull. I’d say there’s more openness to the idea of the latter two - certainly with KLP anyway - even though Broja’s case would seem to have the highest chance of success.
Last edited by Aceface on Sun May 29, 2022 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BigFatSam
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by BigFatSam »

Moyes has no issue playing young kids. It’s such a farce he’s labelled with this.

Just off the top of my head with no time thinking about it:

- 16 year old Wayne Rooney at Everton
- 16 year old James Vaughn who I believe broke Rooney young scorer record
- 18 year old Adnan Januzaj
- 21 year old Jordan Pickford
-19 year old Jermey Ngakia
-19 year old Ben Johnson
-19 year old Declan Rice

This list is literally from the top of my head. He plays young players if they’re good enough. Majority of young players coming through aren’t good enough.
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hammers92
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by hammers92 »

The Premier League is arguably the best league in the world in terms of quality and the players that play here. The chances of academy players being good enough to consistently play are a tiny percentage, the bar is very, very high.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

BigFatSam wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:14 am Moyes has no issue playing young kids. It’s such a farce he’s labelled with this.

Just off the top of my head with no time thinking about it:

- 16 year old Wayne Rooney at Everton
- 16 year old James Vaughn who I believe broke Rooney young scorer record
- 18 year old Adnan Januzaj
- 21 year old Jordan Pickford
-19 year old Jermey Ngakia
-19 year old Ben Johnson
-19 year old Declan Rice

This list is literally from the top of my head. He plays young players if they’re good enough. Majority of young players coming through aren’t good enough.
The point is he plays youngsters if they are good enough. Of course. All managers do that. It is hardly a risk though to play a young player of very high quality.
Some managers will chuck in players even if they are not sure they are ready because they are less risk averse. It might work, or it might not but let's give it a go anyway is their attitude

I am not saying that is the right thing to do btw.

Moyes view on youngsters is the same as transfers. He has to be nearly 100% sure it won't backfire
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BigFatSam
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by BigFatSam »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:31 am The point is he plays youngsters if they are good enough. Of course. All managers do that. It is hardly a risk though to play a young player of very high quality.
Some managers will chuck in players even if they are not sure they are ready because they are less risk averse. It might work, or it might not but let's give it a go anyway is their attitude

I am not saying that is the right thing to do btw.

Moyes view on youngsters is the same as transfers. He has to be nearly 100% sure it won't backfire
I disagree with this, all youngsters are a risk. You don’t know if they’ll adapt when they play in mens football. But if they show the right qualities, Moyes will give them a chance.

It’s easy to say “well he only gives a chance to players who we know are good enough” as that basically means that we make an assumption that he never gives opportunities to players who aren’t sure things, which would be most likely an incorrect assumption. None of the young players I listed are a sure thing, they were all a risk.

Managers jobs are on the line, it was be stupid for them to risk young players constantly, especially if they have major doubts over there ability to play senior football.

You mention some managers are willing to throw young players in constantly, but who are these managers?

No being argumentative btw, just having a healthy debate!
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alantaylorsleftfoot
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by alantaylorsleftfoot »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Sat May 28, 2022 11:32 pm Mate there's no need to be sarcy about it, when have I ever said any of those things above? That our Academy is 'still the best' etc? And no, I was just debunking your original point about Moyes only dipping into the academy as a last resort, as you put it. Our best player came out of it and plays every game. He uses Johnno most weeks and would use him even more if his attacking ability matched his defensive.

But somehow the impression I get from your posts is that because Alese is left-sided and played well for our U23s, yet didn't play when we had a left-sided defensive crisis, that means Moyes doesn't want or like to use youth. Or because he didn't use Chesters, who you think is a dynamo.

My point is that we pretty much do the same as the other teams when it comes to youth, except yeah, it is particularly notable and impressive that one of them is currently our captain who Moyes has never hesitated to thrust into being the key player for us. Again, if you're good enough, you'll play.

Anyway, yes, I agree that we both want West Ham to be the best they can be. :newthumb:
Fair response.

The Alese point was that he was a better option than Arthur as possibly was Longelo. This being the "if you are good enough ..." argument. No player should be selected purely because they are promising youngsters. They have to add something to the team or likely to develop into a player that is going to add something to the team.

Chesters could have been used off the bench when we were chasing games.

I'll repeat, none of the Academy boys are near being 1st team regulars, but they could have been used a little more. I think we'll see a bit more of Chesters and Perkins next season. Perlins has only just turned 18.
Wormley The 2nd
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Wormley The 2nd »

West Ham want Leipzig striker Adamu.

West Ham want to bring in RB Leipzig striker Junior Adamu - according to the Daily Mail.

Southampton are also keen on the 20-year-old, who is set to be available for around £12 million in the summer transfer window.

Adamu, who is under contract at Leipzig until 2025, scored nine goals for the club in 2021-22.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/live/tr ... e69c780447


Never heard of him.
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bubbles1966
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by bubbles1966 »

For the sake of reference, there was only one player in the league last season who is almost a regular at his club who is aged under 20 - Livaramento at Southampton.

Those aged 20 are almost entirely in wide positions - the only 20 year olds starting regularly in central positions are Broja and Gilmour, though Gilmour plays for a glorified championship team.
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Bubbles Fortuna
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by Bubbles Fortuna »

I think Broja would be a great signing, and I don't really understand what people expect when they say they'd only want him alongside another striker.

We only play with one up front, if we signed someone else, whoever that would be, when would they play?

They'd only really be needed if Antonio or Broja were injured or suspended and even then they'd likely be a bench player. What we need is someone like Dennis who plays wide but can fill in up front.

That way we'd have Antonio and Broja, as well as Bowen and Dennis who could fill in when necessary, and the flexibility to play two up front like we've done in the past with Bowen and Antonio or Bowen and Lingard.

Throw Lingard in as well and our attacking options are brilliant.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by westlondonhammer »

alantaylorsleftfoot wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:39 am Fair response.

The Alese point was that he was a better option than Arthur as possibly was Longelo. This being the "if you are good enough ..." argument. No player should be selected purely because they are promising youngsters. They have to add something to the team or likely to develop into a player that is going to add something to the team.

Chesters could have been used off the bench when we were chasing games.

I'll repeat, none of the Academy boys are near being 1st team regulars, but they could have been used a little more. I think we'll see a bit more of Chesters and Perkins next season. Perlins has only just turned 18.
...and if they're all not good enough? If Longelo and Alese are not good enough to oust Masuaku (as the evidence suggests) it probably speaks volumes
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by bubbles1966 »

Sunday Mirror claim that we want to try and loan Andriy Lunin, Ukrainian GK , from Real Madrid.
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hammer1975
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by hammer1975 »

More reports that we’ll be looking to move Vlasic on this summer - but allegedly we want £20m.

Calling it now - there will be no takers at that level and we’ll loan him to Serie A (with an option) in the last week of the window.

Ps - Cuenca, I got your accounting example mate 👍🏻, know you weren’t really suggesting £15m for Benrahma.
Last edited by hammer1975 on Sun May 29, 2022 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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bubbles1966
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by bubbles1966 »

hammer1975 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:13 am More reports that we’ll be looking to move Vlasic on this summer - but allegedly we want £20m.

Calling it now - there will be no takers at that level and we’ll loan him to Serie A (with an option) in the last week of the window.

Ps - Cuenca, I got your accounting example mate 👍🏻, know you weren’t suggesting £15m for Benrahma.
We'll get closer to £15m, I reckon. "Bonuses" might bump it up.
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westlondonhammer
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by westlondonhammer »

hammer1975 wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:13 am More reports that we’ll be looking to move Vlasic on this summer - but allegedly we want £20m.

Calling it now - there will be no takers at that level and we’ll loan him to Serie A (with an option) in the last week of the window.

Ps - Cuenca, I got your accounting example mate 👍🏻, know you weren’t suggesting £15m for Benrahma.
I called it weeks ago... 8-)

AC Milan for a 4 million loan fee and 15 million option next season. Basically wipes him off the books without accruing any more losses.
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by westlondonhammer »

Bubbles Fortuna wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 10:08 am I think Broja would be a great signing, and I don't really understand what people expect when they say they'd only want him alongside another striker.

We only play with one up front, if we signed someone else, whoever that would be, when would they play?

They'd only really be needed if Antonio or Broja were injured or suspended and even then they'd likely be a bench player. What we need is someone like Dennis who plays wide but can fill in up front.

That way we'd have Antonio and Broja, as well as Bowen and Dennis who could fill in when necessary, and the flexibility to play two up front like we've done in the past with Bowen and Antonio or Bowen and Lingard.

Throw Lingard in as well and our attacking options are brilliant.
100% agree mate

Astute signings across front line
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by 1895Hammer »

Wormley The 2nd wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:50 am West Ham want Leipzig striker Adamu.

West Ham want to bring in RB Leipzig striker Junior Adamu - according to the Daily Mail.

Southampton are also keen on the 20-year-old, who is set to be available for around £12 million in the summer transfer window.

Adamu, who is under contract at Leipzig until 2025, scored nine goals for the club in 2021-22.

https://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/live/tr ... e69c780447


Never heard of him.
Hopefully this a sign Newman is doing his job….
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Re: The Summer Transfer Thread 2022.

Post by I am Legend »

If Vlasic isn't in Moyes plans and he gets an upgrade then I have no problem with him going on loan. If he smashes it in Serie A then his value just goes up. Right now its lower than when we signed him. Might be more profitable to loan to a good team who'll use him properly.

Moving on, hope we sign one from my list in the new week or so..

Areola
Aguerd
Bassey
Bissouma
Lingard
Lewis-Potter
Borja
Scamacca
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