VeniceHammer wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:27 pm
I don’t care. The lad hasn’t played competitive football in more than a year, and the purple patch he had with us was a mixture of luck/will to get in the England squad/pride. He will never, ever, ever get back to that kind of form. And I worry dearly that GSB will look at a window of aguerd, areola and lingard ad a great one and stop right there.
I sort of agree to a point...I never rated Lingard and always looked at him as more interested in his social media and funny hand shakes to celebrate a goal than actually getting his head down and playing football....however he proved me wrong in them first couple of months where he was quality. He gave us speed going forward and was always positive with the ball. It was great seeing a player running at the opposition defence.
However, the last month he was pretty awful...maybe because he knew that he wasn't coming back or something but I thought then, he just went through a purple patch..
Maybe he has an eye on the England squad and will hit that purple patch again? He seems to have a good connection with Moyes and gets on with Rice etc..
I know there will be a signing on fee and he will be on big wages but at least there isn't a huge fee to pay a "club"...
If he can recapture that first two months form rather than the last few games then it's a yes from me..⚒
VeniceHammer wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:23 pm
I cannot express in words how strongly I am against signing lingard. If it happens he will be a disastrous flop and you can quote me on this. We should have moved on a year ago.
Fair enough. I’d trust Moyes’ judgement to sound out those concerns before signing on the line. Completely understand the concern though.
Doyley72 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:43 pm
However, the last month he was pretty awful...maybe because he knew that he wasn't coming back or something but I thought then, he just went through a purple patch..
To my eyes he was getting double-marked and we didn't have the firepower in other areas of the pitch to take advantage of it. Teams also started sitting deeper, which nullified his strengths somewhat. But that is also due to the fact we lacked a creative playmaker, and continue to do so. The wheels really fell off when Rice got injured as we just didn't have the solidity to get those extra couple of points that would have seen us finish higher without him.
We scored 60 goals last season and 62 before that, putting aside our need to solidify at the back (Aguerd and a starting left back) we need roughly the same amount to standstill and roughly 65-70 goals to push on.
Across the 38 league games I think we need roughly 40-45 goals from our top 3 players.
Fornals/Lingard - Antonio/Broja - Bowen
Across 38 games and with rest for certain players those 5 will give us the goals we need.
There’s money to be spent (if we actually do have it) better than into lingard signing on fee and wages. Kokcu, Pellegrini and broja would do us a world of good, and the quoted 6M signing on fee we should fork out for Jesse could be easily diverted on one of the three above
WestHamLyallStyle wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:47 pm
I think consistency is his biggest problem. We need to accept he will blow hot and cold.
Was he that bad in the last few games? Or did he just not reach the early standards he had set? I don't know. Without him we would have win maybe half the games we did.
To me he still looked like he had an element of class. Little balls played out wide from just outside the area. Dangerous pace.
The reality is all of our players have games where they are ****. Some had quite a few second half of the season. The truly great/strong teams just always have enough top quality that one of them sorts it out and does the business.
Cuenca 'ammer wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:03 pm
anyone else thinking we sign JLingz we don't go with a CF ?
I am for one........
Only if we also sign someone who can play Bowen's position.
It feels as though we are lining up Sarr, Broja and En-Nesyri - all big, pacy players - and we will take one of those.
If we get Sarr, Bowen can play CF which he is very adept at , albeit playing in a different way to Antonio and more akin to a Vardy. I actually think Bowen's best position will ultimately be as a #9.
Ironing Board wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:48 pm
To my eyes he was getting double-marked and we didn't have the firepower in other areas of the pitch to take advantage of it. Teams also started sitting deeper, which nullified his strengths somewhat. But that is also due to the fact we lacked a creative playmaker, and continue to do so. The wheels really fell off when Rice got injured as we just didn't have the solidity to get those extra couple of points that would have seen us finish higher without him.
Yeah I think he got sussed out a bit..that why ots important that he isn't the only signing, especially with 5 subs, we need to change things and have different options. It's not going to happen but if we did have a playmaker someone with pinpoint passing for say Lingard and Bowen to use their pace and intelligent while playing off someone like Broja or En-Nesyri whose intelligent runs make space and with Rice and Soucek dominating then it could be exciting...someone like JWP maybe?
Plus if we capture Dennis or Sarr or Lewis-Porter as options to come on and shake it up?
bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:08 pm
Only if we also sign someone who can play Bowen's position.
It feels as though we are lining up Sarr, Broja and En-Nesyri - all big, pacy players - and we will take one of those.
If we get Sarr, Bowen can play CF which he is very adept at , albeit playing in a different way to Antonio and more akin to a Vardy. I actually think Bowen's best position will ultimately be as a #9.
don't know mate. I'd love a CF a TRUE CF. but... Lingard would fill a void, maybe move around the others, and Bowen up top. Moyes already said he couldn't find a better CF than Bowen in Jan.
we need to STOP crossing the bloody so much unless we can find a bigger CF who's good with his noggin.
not sure about En Neysri. saw him in La Liga and don't remember a swath of goals he scored with his head. got pace that's for sure. get the ball more in behind with Lingard perhaps ?
that would be a better option for me if Moyes wanted to do that. look how positive it was against City. lots of teams though don't play a high line against us other than those up the sharp end of the league. so we do need to find a much better option it seems because a lot of teams at least imvho, seemed to sit back and actually "West Ham" us.......
All players go through good and bad spells. Having a squad will allow us to be better prepared to rotate.
JLingz will probably not repeat those levels but with a World Cup coming up he might want to give Gareth something to think about which can only be good for us.
We need an attacking midfielder and with the other holes we need to fill I can see the appeal of Lingard at £2m a year plus wages.
He’ll never be as good as he was in that spell, but if his head is right and we get flashes of it then all good if it means more money for better players elsewhere.
Cuenca 'ammer wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:15 pm
don't know mate. I'd love a CF a TRUE CF. but... Lingard would fill a void, maybe move around the others, and Bowen up top. Moyes already said he couldn't find a better CF than Bowen in Jan.
we need to STOP crossing the bloody so much unless we can find a bigger CF who's good with his noggin.
not sure about En Neysri. saw him in La Liga and don't remember a swath of goals he scored with his head. got pace that's for sure. get the ball more in behind with Lingard perhaps ?
that would be a better option for me if Moyes wanted to do that. look how positive it was against City. lots of teams though don't play a high line against us other than those up the sharp end of the league. so we do need to find a much better option it seems because a lot of teams at least imvho, seemed to sit back and actually "West Ham" us.......
I think we will go for Sarr or Broja because they've both played over here. They are both a very good age and a good physical profile to imitate Antonio or Arnautovic - players Moyes has trusted implicitly as his CF. I think the price and wages will be okay by us.
Obviously Sarr offers the option of Bowen up top and Sarr wide right.
Obviously nothing I can do to prove it either way but being at the Frankfurt game in particular and just generally in that back end of the season, I did personally feel that we would’ve won the Europa League if we had Lingard.
He has that extra know-how and ability to make things happen in attacking midfield that only Bowen has for us.
He won’t put up the numbers at the rate he did during his loan spell. It will still be a great signing if it happens.
Instantly one of our best 5 players the moment he signs.
What is it about Lingard that winds people up? He had an astonishingly good 10 games or so, followed by an average 5 games (he didn’t stink the place out, he just didn’t maintain the impossibly high standard he’d set).
He left to return to his parent, boyhood club, having shown us nothing but respect. It wasn’t his fault that Man U refused to sell and (apparently) made him promises and then left him to rot on the bench for a year.
And now, as a free agent, of course he’s going to try to get the best possible deal that he can.
I’d be delighted to have him back. I don’t expect him to repeat his previous feats - that would be unrealistic - but he’s proven himself a game changer, offers us something different to what we have, and appears to be great for the dressing room. And Dec likes him.
