Jury Service

Anything goes in The Snug, General Discussion's rebellious little brother. An off-topic den of iniquity where any subject not covered elsewhere may be discussed. Well, anything except golf, Star Wars and Arsenal.

Moderators: Wilko1304, -DL-, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo, chalks, Gnome, last.caress

User avatar
kenthammer
Posts: 3781
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 6:02 pm
Location: 1980 Cup Final veteran
Has liked: 25 likes
Total likes: 39 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by kenthammer »

btajim - mcfc wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:25 pm I know he pled guilty eventually but imagine being on the duty for the Ian Watkins from Lostprophets trial.
Had a similar case on my 2nd week,babies and animals
Not something I wanna do again
User avatar
btajim - mcfc
There when they were sh*t
Posts: 7996
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Cheshire
Has liked: 22 likes
Total likes: 100 likes
Contact:

Re: Jury Service

Post by btajim - mcfc »

When Hereford United went pop, they’d been owned by a convicted thief, serial con artist, asset stripper and football hooligan. One was meant to attend court with proof of £1,000,000 to pay the creditors but was “stuck in traffic” with the evidence. The sole barrister did his best to defend them but the half dozen or so against (HMRC leading) saw them wound up in five minutes. We were outside waiting for longer than we were in. Surreal experience.

I enjoy my job as a clerk but wouldn’t touch Crown with a barge pole. Imagine the pond life you’d deal with.
User avatar
The Collector
Posts: 5768
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:59 am
Location: The Misty Isle
Total likes: 6 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by The Collector »

Did mine years ago. I was sent to Knightsbridge Crown Court (behind Harrod’s) despite living in Silvertown. Turned up for the first day to be sworn in and found that a bloke from my local pub was also a juror as was the mother of a girl I went to school with and a couple of people from Canning Town!

I spent the best part of two weeks in the juror’s room reading a long book. Eventually put on a mugging case which lasted a couple of days and an attempted theft which was one day. Even if we were not needed we had to sit in this room with all the other jurors. Nobody got released to go home or go back to work for a day. There were card schools and people brought in board games to try to ease the boredom.

Lovely old building with a juror’s cafe in the basement and a wide staircase sweeping up to the first floor. Walked past it a couple of years ago and it had been converted into posh flats.
User avatar
Samba
Posts: 19524
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:36 pm
Location: David Sullivan's least favourite fluffer.
Has liked: 1428 likes
Total likes: 480 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by Samba »

dasnutnock3 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 3:33 pm Sounds like an utterly tedious pain in the arse, TBH.
I think it usually is, Dan.
Did mine at the Old Bailey which I guess was worth it, just to see inside.
Two defendants accused of robbing banks & building societies. Lasted 2 weeks.
After the prosecution, I was like - GUILTY!
After the defence, I was like - NOT GUILTY!
How should I know, I wasn't there at any of them?
After it was all over, decided there & then that 'winning' is possibly largely down to who has the better barristers that can tell the best 'story' & not necessarily about, whether they are actually guilty or not.
All in all, quite disappointing, really..
User avatar
westham,eggyandchips
Posts: 21394
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:06 pm
Location: In the year 2525
Has liked: 506 likes
Total likes: 329 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by westham,eggyandchips »

2007 I done it.

Nothing in the first week. Got sent home by 10am.

Then the second week got a assault case. Bloke was a complete wrong'un. Assaulted a black guy in Tilbury in an unprovoked attack. Then, when the Ambo arrived to help the black guy, this moron attacked one of the paramedics too.

Some of fellow jury members were right jobsworths though.
User avatar
btajim - mcfc
There when they were sh*t
Posts: 7996
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Cheshire
Has liked: 22 likes
Total likes: 100 likes
Contact:

Re: Jury Service

Post by btajim - mcfc »

Everyone has the right to a fair trial. Cases to prosecute and defend are very thorough.

I’ve just remembered when I had to get a taxi home at lunch because I’d had a delivery. The driver picked me up outside the court in my work clothes and didn’t say a word. I’m assuming he thought I’d been on trial!
woodgreenspur
Posts: 3615
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 5:29 pm
Location: Wood green, London
Has liked: 42 likes
Total likes: 17 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by woodgreenspur »

Did it about 5 years back.
Was at Wood Green crown court,so could walk there.
Really enjoyed it,would happily do it again.
User avatar
sendô
Posts: 39337
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: in the pessimistically optimistic camp.
Has liked: 979 likes
Total likes: 810 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by sendô »

Nope. I was lucky enough to get myself cautioned by the police for a minor drugs offence as a teenager. Best tenner I ever spent...
User avatar
Big George
Posts: 12674
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 2:59 pm
Location: Hanging On In There
Has liked: 72 likes
Total likes: 111 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by Big George »

Wife got called on a sexual assault-rape case earleir this year that all hung on consent, found it all quite distressing.

There used to be called something called the "Snaresbrook effect" realtring to convictions. This meant the CPS were reluctant to send certain cases there because the localpop used to say "handling stolen goods? that's a crime? Give over!".
User avatar
Plashet Grove Pete
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:32 pm
Location: I'm riding down Kingsley, figurin' I'll get a drink ....
Has liked: 54 likes
Total likes: 72 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by Plashet Grove Pete »

Served mine at Chelmsford about 15 years ago. As others have said there's lots of sitting around doing very little. Had two cases over a two week period, the first a fairly farcical fraud case which got kicked out on the second day, the other a GBH case which got downgraded to affray mid way through. That case lasted three days, but the jury spent at least half the time outside the courtroom whilst legal arguments went on.

Overall glad I did it, but seemed like a process that was ripe for improvement and streamlining - whatever you do take plenty of reading material along!
User avatar
Johnny Byrne's Boots
Posts: 26493
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:19 pm
Location: Care home dodger
Has liked: 410 likes
Total likes: 604 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

For those who have done jury service, do you feel the system is sufficiently robust considering people can get jailed for years? Is a randomly selected from all walks of life jury capable of understanding all the evidence and legal arguments/instructions?
User avatar
Shy Ted
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Norfolk Broads
Has liked: 97 likes
Total likes: 44 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by Shy Ted »

When ever I hear Jury Service I think of Hancock.



Will never be asked, got a little bit of form.
Online
User avatar
Tenbury
Posts: 7211
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:28 pm
Location: Too near Kidderminster
Has liked: 221 likes
Total likes: 299 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by Tenbury »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:43 pm For those who have done jury service, do you feel the system is sufficiently robust considering people can get jailed for years? Is a randomly selected from all walks of life jury capable of understanding all the evidence and legal arguments/instructions?
Not even slightly.
I've hummed and ha'ad about posting this, but I spose it's OK :

Just before the pandemic, I spent 2 weeks on a jury. WMP made a total bollox of the case, and while the guy may well have been guilty, as the judge pointed out, most of the evidence was circumstanstial and the OB who gave evidence were, frankly, infantile. Sadly for the defendant, much talk was made of ' county lines', his skin tone was (for more than a few jurors) quite clearly problematic, and, worst of all, many (after a day and a half's deliberation) expressed a desperate need to return to their normal lives.
Guilty by majority verdict. An immensely depressing experience.
User avatar
Plashet Grove Pete
Posts: 3076
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:32 pm
Location: I'm riding down Kingsley, figurin' I'll get a drink ....
Has liked: 54 likes
Total likes: 72 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by Plashet Grove Pete »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:43 pm For those who have done jury service, do you feel the system is sufficiently robust considering people can get jailed for years? Is a randomly selected from all walks of life jury capable of understanding all the evidence and legal arguments/instructions?
I certainly felt that all the jurors took their responsibilities very seriously, and paid full attention. One young guy made it plain that he was very anti police, but in the event I don't think this made any difference - one person was found guilty of affray (the evidence against him was overwhelming, although two others were acquitted) and from memory the jury was unanimous.

I think a lot of effort was made to keep things simple and to ensure people understood - the judge certainly seemed sympathetic to the jurors, and there was every opportunity to flag concerns or request something be explained again But what I would say is it ain't like on TV where in courtroom dramas everything is slick and everyone speaks eloquently - there were loads of fumbles, misplaced notes, delays etc.
User avatar
Roby
Posts: 5864
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:07 pm
Location: Bristol via Plaistow then Maidstone
Has liked: 44 likes
Total likes: 37 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by Roby »

btajim - mcfc wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:25 pm I know he pled guilty eventually but imagine being on the duty for the Ian Watkins from Lostprophets trial.
That bloke transpired to be an absolute wrong un.

It came out later that he’d also uploaded photos of himself to dodgy websites where he had a BASEBALL BAT shoved up his arse.

I personally wouldn’t fancy jury service - a colleague from work was on the case week before last where the ex squaddie broke into his neighbours house and stabbed them to death over a parking space on an estate.

Madness.

My brother did one a few years back where some young kid was looking after a shooter for a gang and was taking pics and waving it about and ended up shooting his girlfriend in the chest. Poor girl bled out and died. Again, madness.
User avatar
btajim - mcfc
There when they were sh*t
Posts: 7996
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Cheshire
Has liked: 22 likes
Total likes: 100 likes
Contact:

Re: Jury Service

Post by btajim - mcfc »

I did bits of work with South Wales bands when Lostprophets broke through. Above anything, nobody seemed to like Watkins. I think sometimes you can just tell although there weren’t even suspicions from his band mates in to how sick he really was.
User avatar
hammerheadjim
Posts: 1436
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:18 pm
Location: GSB OUT!
Has liked: 4 likes
Total likes: 6 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by hammerheadjim »

I appreciate all the feedback and experiences. Will be at Snaresbrook at the end of August into September. (Does mean it’ll be rola cola for the spurs game sadly) :cried:

I have always fancied doing it and have a real interest into how the justice system works, but as others have said, I hope it’s nothing that may give too harrowing tales... :fxd:
User avatar
Chicken Run Supreme
Posts: 13121
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:58 am
Location: Exiled in Angus
Has liked: 274 likes
Total likes: 243 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by Chicken Run Supreme »

I was called up at the age of 20 when still a student and applied to be excused and was granted exemption.
Not had a sniff since then until a couple of months ago. I was required to phone Clerk of Court daily at 5 to see if needed as jury was still remotely based in an Odeon cinema. After a week of calling in and not being required, on the Friday I was told “thank you for making yourself available but you are relieved of your duties”. I was very disappointed
User avatar
prophet:marginal
Posts: 38852
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:54 pm
Location: I walk with the sun
Has liked: 435 likes
Total likes: 762 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by prophet:marginal »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:43 pm For those who have done jury service, do you feel the system is sufficiently robust considering people can get jailed for years? Is a randomly selected from all walks of life jury capable of understanding all the evidence and legal arguments/instructions?
The unemployed and retired are, perhaps inevitably, over-represented in juries, because certain types of work - especially the running of one's own business - are the main reason for people to be excused service on long/complicated trials.

Sometimes, especially in big urban centres, people are selected to be on juries when their English isn't perfect. That will of course lead to concerns that they have understood the nuance of language, but a line has to be drawn somewhere.

One very important thing to remember, though, is that a decent advocate is only really ever going to persuade a jury if he or she is making an address (or asking a question in examining a witness) if he or she is doing it in a manner that a jury member can readily understand. In the main, as much as exceptions do arise, criminal activity is subject to the reality of whether something was unreasonable, or dishonest, or - from another perspective - so clear as to be proof of the crime.

The jury system needs tightening up, but it has to be representative of the community in which the alleged offence/criminal activity arose. It has evolved recently, to ensure as best as it can the correct result - for instance, nowadays, the jury gets written directions on the law, so that it is not required to remember large chunks of information from the judge.
User avatar
kenthammer
Posts: 3781
Joined: Sun Aug 17, 2003 6:02 pm
Location: 1980 Cup Final veteran
Has liked: 25 likes
Total likes: 39 likes

Re: Jury Service

Post by kenthammer »

When I done mine the Jurors had there own room with TV,restaurant and toilets and were taken down back stairways to the courtroom so you didn't mix with anybody,at lunchtime you could walk outside and be standing next to the defendant and his family/friends having a fag or in the shop queue.
I think if I was in a gang related case I'd have felt quite uncomfortable walking out at the end of the day
Post Reply