The Energy Crisis

[dasnutnock3]

Cheaper to pay the fines than fix the leaks normally .....

Same with the water companies chucking human **** into rivers. Save billions, pay a few million in fines. Our quangos are a joke.

[Ralph Mellish]

Same with the water companies chucking human **** into rivers. Save billions, pay a few million in fines. Our quangos are a joke.

Not this one

[simon hammer]

they have banned petrol cars

Not true. There are plans to stop selling petrol and diesel powered cars by 2030. If you buy a brand new one in 2030, you'll have the lifespan of the car before it is rendered redundant, so it's reasonable to expect to still see petrol and diesel cars on the roads into the 2050's and potentially beyond. The counter argument of course revolves around prohibitive fuel prices...but that's getting off topic.

Who's 'they'? I hear that a lot from people I know who believe it's all a conspiracy. "They"...no one seems to be able to identify the constituents that comprise the group labelled 'they', so it would be good if you can shed some light on it.

We do indeed need a green movement. It's easy to sit here and moan and complain about the state of things without actually getting up and trying to do something about it. This was labelled at me on this very forum...and after thinking about it I have to heartily thank the poster who said it to me. It worked...I'm a member of the Green party, have been for a while now...and I am now the candidate for North Walsham West ward.

If around 5000 of you could move here and give me your vote, it'd be much appreciated.

[mumbles87]

Fully aware of the ban only being new sales, but yes I should have reflected that. The point still stands they (the Tories who have been in gov over a decade) have pushed the ban through whilst at the same time cutting the support for green projects like the ev grants, the requirements for all car parks in the country to have chargers , the removal of gov incentives for solar projects , allowing new properties to be built without solar installed.

This latest energy crisis (in attempt to keep it on topic) has shown how out of touch with the people they (the Tory government) are that they fail to act promptly to help shield the general public from the rises .. allowing ofgem to change the price cap every 3 months instead of 6? So what the price can rise (let's face it, it's not to put it down and people will.claim oh they can.. but wait the price cap is the max a company can charge .. they can price under the price cap. So if wholesale dropped in say January on a 6 month price cap I'm sure a energy company could , if they so wish, lower the cost) the energy prices mid way through the months heating bills are at the highest ..


Help targeted in the wrong places. The vat cut on energy efficient projects I agreed with but was poorly brought in at a time when more help was needed to the masses for energy bills not saving on projects where if people can afford to do them the 5% vat wasn't putting them off doing and that money could have been better used for support for the poorer in society to do something.

Edit most of this is covered in the Johnson thread by the blog post about the state of the current government.

[mumbles87]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -two-years

[EvilC]

Gas prices are mental right now. However the Germans have put in place a system which might mean this price surge is overdone and lead to some demand destruction. I hope this is correct.

[simon hammer]

Gas prices are mental right now. However the Germans have put in place a system which might mean this price surge is overdone and lead to some demand destruction. I hope this is correct.

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is 'demand destruction'?

[kenthammer1984]

I used the Octopus crystal ball tracker last week and it said that if we kept our direct debit payments at the current £240 (whilst having £160 of credit on the account) we would be in debt to the tune of £1,200 next June.
To be at a zero balance next June we need to pay £350 a month

I logged back onto the crystal ball tracker today to show a colleague at work and noticed the forecasted position has got even worse. It now says if we continue to pay £240 a month we will owe £1,800 in June next year and we need to pay £403 a month to be at a zero balance in June.

It’s estimating our January bill will be £660!!!

How is that right? It’s making be feel sick just thinking about it. My wife and I earn an ok salary each, but needing to find all this extra money will eventually cripple us (and it will keep getting worse I fear!) our mortgage will likely go up roughly £300-350 a month next year too when we renew.

It’s scary.

[delbert]

The knock on from that will be a general belt tightening meaning the entertainment industry will be hit again on top of also being lumbered with ridiculous energy costs.......

[Denbighammer]

I keep hearing "when prices come down" and how ridiculous the costs are/are going to be but what if that's just how expensive energy is always going to be from now on?

[EvilC]

Please forgive my ignorance, but what is 'demand destruction'?

People/companies not using gas. Essentially there is some sort of mechanism for industrials etc. to turn off their plants.

[EvilC]

I keep hearing "when prices come down" and how ridiculous the costs are/are going to be but what if that's just how expensive energy is always going to be from now on?

Energy is very unlikely to be as cheap as it was before for a long while, the initial shortage pre-Ukraine which was caused by a combination of factors has now been replaced by no more Russian gas, which isn't something that can be resolved cheaply (well, you can let the Russians roll through Ukraine, but then they'll use it as a lever again).

[Denbighammer]

Energy is very unlikely to be as cheap as it was before for a long while, the initial shortage pre-Ukraine which was caused by a combination of factors has now been replaced by no more Russian gas, which isn't something that can be resolved cheaply (well, you can let the Russians roll through Ukraine, but then they'll use it as a lever again).

So any plan to keep the cap artificially low for a year is fundamentally flawed then? Its just kicking the can down the road & reinforcing the idea that now matter what happens (virus, credit crunch, energy crisis) the government will ride to everyone's rescue and pay their bills.

[EvilC]

So any plan to keep the cap artificially low for a year is fundamentally flawed then? Its just kicking the can down the road & reinforcing the idea that now matter what happens (virus, credit crunch, energy crisis) the government will ride to everyone's rescue and pay their bills.

It is hard to tell. The cap is already way higher than it was 15 months ago. Some things may alleviate some of the stress at some point - Rough coming back online, Hinkley Point commencing service.

There are lots of things the country can do - heat pumps, more renewables, home insulation etc. - the question is, what combination is best, how long does it take, and how do you incentivise it?

[Hummer_I_mean_Hammer]

It is hard to tell. The cap is already way higher than it was 15 months ago. Some things may alleviate some of the stress at some point - Rough coming back online, Hinkley Point commencing service.

There are lots of things the country can do - heat pumps, more renewables, home insulation etc. - the question is, what combination is best, how long does it take, and how do you incentivise it?

also tooling/skilling up for both people who can install the tech effectively, and ensuring that the supply chain can cope with the added demand.

A contractor I recently spoke to said his supplier was quoting over the phone, no more 30 day price holds, you either buy it now, or risk price increase tomorrow when you call again. :shock:

[EvilC]

also tooling/skilling up for both people who can install the tech effectively, and ensuring that the supply chain can cope with the added demand.

A contractor I recently spoke to said his supplier was quoting over the phone, no more 30 day price holds, you either buy it now, or risk price increase tomorrow when you call again. :shock:

Indeed. And this is going to be hard, because we already have a people/skills shortage, and supply chain problems don't look like they are going away.

[the pink palermo]

Surely, higher energy costs can be at least in part, offset by lower consumption ?

Without going the full sackcloth and ashes routine, when i was born in the 1960's, we lived in a small flat with no central heating. We had a parafin heater that got lit only when it was baltic.

Famalies can help themselves to some extent by being frugal. Not ideal I grant you, but I'm bollocksed if I'm going to start handing over £500 a month until I am ure I've cut back as much as I can.


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Having said that, the real impact will be felt by businesses. It's barely getting a mention but crikey, Steel, Sugar, Glass, Paper all use massive amounts of energy.The public will feel the impact of price increases from those sectors far more than it feels the cost of heating their homes.

[S-H]

My gas and electric bill has gone up from £80 p/m to £150 p/m realistically what is that likely to rise to?

I'm anticipating double.

[S-H]

Having said that, the real impact will be felt by businesses. It's barely getting a mention but crikey, Steel, Sugar, Glass, Paper all use massive amounts of energy.The public will feel the impact of price increases from those sectors far more than it feels the cost of heating their homes.

I'm in the Steel industry, and only yesterday was notified that prices would be raising by around £100 per tonne, with immediate effect.

[EvilC]

My gas and electric bill has gone up from £80 p/m to £150 p/m realistically what is that likely to rise to?

I'm anticipating double.

It is a moving target, but the average house could pay £4.5k a year based on current forward prices according to Cornwall Insight, who are very good an unlikely to be wrong. Everything depends on gas wholesale prices though, and these are very volatile and hard to predict.

PP - yes, you can, and people should have been messing with thermostats long ago. However given that energy bills are likely to be over 4x higher than they were, there is a limit to the impact that putting a jumper on can have here.