Italy's far right set to win election

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Italy's far right set to win election

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

Far-right leader Giorgia Meloni has won Italy's election, according to exit polls...

...and is on course to become the country's first female prime minister.
If they are confirmed, Ms Meloni will aim to form Italy's most right-wing government since World War Two.
A Meloni-led Italy will alarm much of Europe with Russia at war in Ukraine.
She is predicted to win between 22-26% of the vote, says a Rai exit poll, ahead of her closest rival Enrico Letta from the centre left.
Several exit polls just published given her right-wing alliance a commanding lead, with 41-45% of the vote.


edited to correct title
Last edited by Johnny Byrne's Boots on Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by bubbles1966 »

Browsing some comments elsewhere, it seems that quite a lot of Italians haven't forgotten the lack of help they received from elsewhere when they got clobbered by covid.

She seems quite pally with political people in Poland and Hungary.

The Swedes also elected a right of centre government the other week due to crime and immigration concerns.

I'm not entirely sure what "far right" means these days. I think it's anyone who hasn't succumbed to the begging pop-ups on every page of the Islington Post/Guardian, but I could be wrong. :)
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Re: Italy's far right set to win election

Post by sendô »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:11 pm A Meloni-led Italy will alarm much of Europe
Will it?

I think people need to stop and take a look at what our governments have been doing over the last half decade or so before judging other countries.
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Re: Italy's far right set to win election

Post by bubbles1966 »

sendô wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:58 pm Will it?
Yes.

Remarkably, even the Islington Post is alarmed.
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by Shabu »

bubbles1966 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:17 pm Browsing some comments elsewhere, it seems that quite a lot of Italians haven't forgotten the lack of help they received from elsewhere when they got clobbered by covid.

She seems quite pally with political people in Poland and Hungary.

The Swedes also elected a right of centre government the other week due to crime and immigration concerns.

I'm not entirely sure what "far right" means these days. I think it's anyone who hasn't succumbed to the begging pop-ups on every page of the Islington Post/Guardian, but I could be wrong. :)
I was thinking this myself. What is Right and Left anymore?

I'd bet most right wing European governments are still left of the American democrats, who are considered scary socialists by many here
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by Dimension Diver »

bubbles1966 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 10:17 pm I'm not entirely sure what "far right" means these days. I think it's anyone who hasn't succumbed to the begging pop-ups on every page of the Islington Post/Guardian, but I could be wrong. :)
You probably are, since her party was built from the remnants of the Italian fascists, the Movimento Sociale Italiano, and she has said that she admired Mussolini.

Unless you don't consider Mussolini far right?
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Re: Italy's far right set to win election

Post by JerseyHammer »

I think "far right" is probably stretching it a bit, the coalition is named the centre - right.

Like bubbles says, what is far right nowadays?

Her views on same sex couples adopting have got a few people I know up in arms, she's expected to focus her policies more towards immigration and the LGBT community more than anything else, but I'd be surprised to see any major changes at all.

Patrol boats off the Libyan coast would be a hit with a lot of Italians - everyone I speak to seems to be all for immigrants (refugees) entering Europe so long as the whole zone takes their fair share. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
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Re: Italy's far right set to win election

Post by Friend or Foé »

Another EU member showing that its direction of travel will put it at odds with EU natural tendencies.
It seems every country in Europe has had a swell in votes to the right compared with a decade ago. If not claiming power, increasing its support and pushing its centrist/left leaning counterparts closer. The direction of travel appears to be that voters respect its own individual state identity and its ability to form its own policy on things like immigration. I wonder which country will be next. I also wonder how many more of these EU members it takes to alter how the EU operates upon its members.
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by bubbles1966 »

Dimension Diver wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:25 am You probably are, since her party was built from the remnants of the Italian fascists, the Movimento Sociale Italiano, and she has said that she admired Mussolini.

Unless you don't consider Mussolini far right?
I can see that Mussolini is going to be the Italian equivalent of a Godwin by your very amusing over-reaction.

The phrase 'far right' is chucked about like confetti these days and seems to be the go-to phrase for anyone who doesn't buy into the illiberal left's view of the world.

I don't know much at all about this lady but you seem to. Is she going to invade Abyssinya?
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Re: Italy's far right set to win election

Post by r99c »

Not far right. Just right. Typical media/BBC these days.
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Re: Italy's far right set to win election

Post by szola »

It's far right. There is no doubt.

The main difference between far right and left parties are still their view on:
- The Economy
- Taxing of people and companies
- Military spending
- Social security
- Views on the "religious company sector"
- Migration
- Nation state vs. International co-operation

No that much different from where they stood 20-40 years ago.

https://www.politico.eu/article/how-gio ... erlusconi/

Far right parties in Sweden, UK, Italy, Hungary, France, US have a few trait in common, that the 'classical right' don't.

The worst is their loathing and disdain of the democratic playbook. When in power, they do what is possible to move away from fair and free elections. See US and Hungary as prime examples.

They are also anti-globalist, while the right is globalist.

In addition, they are also linked by not having a co-herent ecomonic policy. UKIP, MAGA, SD, FIDESZ, NF all embrace polar opposite economic policies as long as it is in their short term political gain.
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by bubbles1966 »

Shabu wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:23 am I was thinking this myself. What is Right and Left anymore?

I'd bet most right wing European governments are still left of the American democrats, who are considered scary socialists by many here
There's no such thing as left and right in politics, imo.

There are just differing levels of liberalism and authoritarianism.

I think a lot of words used in politics have been hijacked, distorted and corrupted and often mean something completely different to the true meaning.
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by szola »

bubbles1966 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:21 amThe phrase 'far right' is chucked about like confetti these days and seems to be the go-to phrase for anyone who doesn't buy into the illiberal left's view of the world.
Democracy is ,and have been for a number of years, in decline. That is why you hear 'far-right', more often.
Just as in the late 20s and early 30s, the far-right and far-left, was on the rise.

It should worry, not amuse.
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Re: Italy's far right set to win election

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

Isn't Meloni best buddies with and inspired by Orban?

She might not have proposed the same policies as him yet (neither did Orban at first), but he's certainly a fascist and anyone trying to copy him is worthy of suspicion.
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Re: Italy's far right set to win election

Post by vietnammer »

'Mussolini' comparisons are a bit poorly thought out imo. They are not about to invade Abyssinia and the Balkans. I'd probably never vote for an alliance like this but disappointed that the BBC keep going with this silly shock/horror reporting.
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by bubbles1966 »

szola wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:40 am Democracy is ,and have been for a number of years, in decline. That is why you hear 'far-right', more often.
Just as in the late 20s and early 30s, the far-right and far-left, was on the rise.

It should worry, not amuse.
It really does not apply in any significant manner in the UK. True far-right politics like Britain First and the BNP/NF type parties are just cranks at the extreme.

If the people are disgruntled with the politics the so-called centre serves up, then you have to ask why.

Why are Hungary, Poland, Italy and Sweden all selecting these kind of governments? What are the policies and attitudes that are driving voters towards them? What are the social problems they are encountering?
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by Dimension Diver »

bubbles1966 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:21 am I can see that Mussolini is going to be the Italian equivalent of a Godwin by your very amusing over-reaction.
Are you disputing either of those facts, bubbles?

If you missed them I'll repeat them. Her party used to be called Movimento Sociale Italiano. It was formed after WW2 from the dregs of Mussolini's Republican Fascist Party. You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_Movement

Unsurprisingly, she's previously expressed admiration for Mussolini. Let's hope they don't overturn democracy this time, eh? Not that a right wing party would ever do that, of course.
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by bubbles1966 »

Dimension Diver wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:06 am Are you disputing either of those facts, bubbles?

If you missed them I'll repeat them. Her party used to be called Movimento Sociale Italiano. It was formed after WW2 from the dregs of Mussolini's Republican Fascist Party. You can read about it here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Social_Movement

Unsurprisingly, she's previously expressed admiration for Mussolini. Let's hope they don't overturn democracy this time, eh? Not that a right wing party would ever do that, of course.
What does a similar history lesson on left wing 'democracy' in the Soviet Union, North Korea, China and Cuba reveal?

Perhaps characterising as left and right is really irrelevant and serves no good purpose?

The important characteristics relate to how authoritarian and coercive a government is.

It isn't 1945 so maybe she won't be Mussolini in knickers? After all, Starmer ain't Attlee and Truss ain't Churchill. 1945 was a long time ago.
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Re: Italy'sfar right set to win election

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

bubbles1966 wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:58 am It really does not apply in any significant manner in the UK. True far-right politics like Britain First and the BNP/NF type parties are just cranks at the extreme.
An alternative way of looking at it is that the far right proper has been marginalised by the mainstream right parties drifting ever further into their space.

People forget, for example, that the BNP got just under 1 million votes in the 2009 European elections (out of a total of 15m!), and I think you can probably trace a line from that to the success of UKIP/Brexit Party, and now the current right-right Tories forming a government with almost no centrist Tories in any position of influence.

I think if you'd told anyone 10-20 years ago that it would soon become standard British government policy to deport migrants to Rwanda, that would have come as quite the surprise.

And that's before you start exploring where some of the current funding is coming from...
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Re: Italy's far right set to win election

Post by sendô »

I actually agree that the far left/far right moniker is often inaccurate and unhelpful, and that varying shades of liberal/authoritarian are more accurate. It's also helpful to make a clear distinction between economic and social policy, which are not always completely entwined.

So Italy's new govt should be compared against known authoritarian tactics exercised by other governments such as suppression of the right to protest, suppression of the right to strike, gerrymandering constituency borders to favour the incombant party, changing the voting methodology in mayoral elections to favour the governing party, trying to/threatening to enforce the sale of independent state owned broadcasters that do not toe the governing party line, trying to temporarily close the legislature in order to prevent scrutiny of key government legislation, government ministers routinely lying to the legislature and the head of state and then refusing to resign/refusing to sack them when they're caught, and forcing the expulsion of immigrants to third party nations.
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