The Labour Party Thread

KUMB's 24-hour rolling news channel. The Forum in which to discuss non sport-related news and current affairs, including politics.

Moderators: Gnome, last.caress, Wilko1304, Rio, bristolhammerfc, the pink palermo, chalks

Post Reply
User avatar
SammyLeeWasOffside
Posts: 21694
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
Has liked: 290 likes
Total likes: 1026 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:58 am Genuine question, but don't think any of those are actually supported by the Labour leadership are they?

Starmer's only policy at the moment seems to be "be less crap than the Tories", which is paying off right now, but not sure it's going to pull in the necessary voters come a General Election (likely under a new Tory leader - or Boris) and when the tabloids start rolling out the Corbyn-style smear tactics against him which they've been keeping in reserve.
Bottom 2 he does, although the energy thing looks an awful lot smaller in practice than the headline. PR he is opposed to.
User avatar
StevePottsGoalsReel
Posts: 5864
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:05 am
Has liked: 3122 likes
Total likes: 2265 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:06 am Bottom 2 he does, although the energy thing looks an awful lot smaller in practice than the headline. PR he is opposed to.
Yes, just reading about the energy company thing now. No idea why you would create a new start-up when there are established players with significant customer bases which are crying out to be taken over - couldn't Bulb just become the national green provider?

Starmer's u-turned so many times on nationalisation now, that I'm still sceptical on the railways, but can see that was announced too :newthumb:
Crouchend_Hammer
Posts: 26351
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:31 am
Location: Forest Gate
Has liked: 137 likes
Total likes: 2357 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Collison Theory wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:12 pm Rupa Huq said what it means earlier. Going to a posh school, talking a certain way. She could have added the people he associates with, and the way he dresses. It's a racist concept that is held by black and non-black people.

Well, Rupa Huq for one. What she has demonstrated is that to be successful in a certain way is, to some, to inherently negate your blackness. I doubt she would be uncomfortable with him cleaning up after her, but she is with him in the number two job.
Going to a posh school is not a white only concept. Far from it round these parts. Forest School, as an example, is very diverse from a 'skin colour' point of view

Did she actually say 'acting white' - or did she just comment on Kwartang's lack of 'blackness'?

Whatever she was trying to get at, she has had an absolute mare
User avatar
EvilC
Posts: 18221
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:54 pm
Location: In the street as the cold wind blows, in the ghetto...
Has liked: 2628 likes
Total likes: 1178 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by EvilC »

StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:16 am Yes, just reading about the energy company thing now. No idea why you would create a new start-up when there are established players with significant customer bases which are crying out to be taken over - couldn't Bulb just become the national green provider?

Starmer's u-turned so many times on nationalisation now, that I'm still sceptical on the railways, but can see that was announced too :newthumb:
It doesn't sound like they want to create a supplier (and being a supplier is a pain in the arse, quite frankly) - they want to create a green generator. This sounds like a better idea than simply creating Centrica mk II or whatever.
User avatar
StevePottsGoalsReel
Posts: 5864
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:05 am
Has liked: 3122 likes
Total likes: 2265 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

EvilC wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:29 am It doesn't sound like they want to create a supplier (and being a supplier is a pain in the arse, quite frankly) - they want to create a green generator. This sounds like a better idea than simply creating Centrica mk II or whatever.
That's a very good point, I hadn't considered that distinction (although I believe someone like Ecotricity fulfils both roles?).

Presumably a green generator isn't necessarily going to do anything to stop suppliers profiteering though?
User avatar
OFT
Posts: 21544
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:59 pm
Location: Sleepin’ in a bayou on a old rotten cot
Has liked: 2998 likes
Total likes: 1759 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by OFT »

Clacton-ammer wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:58 am I am one of those strange breeds as I have no affiliation to any party, voted red & blue in my time. The peeps that have supported Labour from voting age, do you think Starmers Labour is creeping more to the centre, and that is part of the attraction, or it's just the shower in govt now? Or maybe both?
I'm one of those who's voted Labour since 1974, although there's been a couple of doubts I've never changed.
In answer to the question, definitely 'a bit of both'. I think the party is more 'presentable' than it has been in recent times seen to be more centre than left and necessarily so.
I like Starmer, he's reassuringly 'steady' I think he's surrounded himself with sensible individuals( i don't agree with F. or F above re' Rayner or Lammy by the way) Rayner in particular is a proper link to the grass roots, did jobs that can be classified as 'at the low end' and has worked her way up.
Can they win a GE?
I think they would if it were held soon, in two years? well there's the dilemma, I hope that things improve dramatically for those who are struggling and if it does it becomes harder for Labour.

It's a little like being in a fairly long term abusive relationship with the current government and the beatings seem to be increasingly regular and brutal. Eventually the chance will be offered to move to a new relationship, hopefully much kinder but 'they love us really, they don't really want to hurt us' could see the Tories stay in the bedroom so to speak.
User avatar
EvilC
Posts: 18221
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 5:54 pm
Location: In the street as the cold wind blows, in the ghetto...
Has liked: 2628 likes
Total likes: 1178 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by EvilC »

StevePottsGoalsReel wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:37 am That's a very good point, I hadn't considered that distinction (although I believe someone like Ecotricity fulfils both roles?).

Presumably a green generator isn't necessarily going to do anything to stop suppliers profiteering though?
A lot fulfil both roles.

I don't believe suppliers are profiteering, and even if they are, it isn't the primary cause of high bills.

What creating some sort of green generator would do is:
1) If prices remain high, would enable the government and therefore the taxpayer to capture some of these high margins - you state can use this as it sees fit - to subsidise bills, spend on wine/women/song etc.
2) By creating additional generation capacity, reduces the UK's reliance on and demand for gas, and also creating additional electricity supply, reducing prices there. Obviously you need to take into account the cost of doing it.
User avatar
btajim - mcfc
There when they were sh*t
Posts: 9879
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Cheshire
Has liked: 72 likes
Total likes: 440 likes
Contact:

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by btajim - mcfc »

Imagine the vocal left clique on social media had Huq been Tory. As usual, they’ve gone silent.
User avatar
Clacton-ammer
Sultan of Swing
Posts: 15767
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:28 am
Has liked: 340 likes
Total likes: 362 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Clacton-ammer »

Appreciate reply OFT :newthumb:

Don't disagree with you, excluding maybe Lammy. I actually quite like Rayner, to my mind Labour need some of those real grass root Labour politicians to keep them true to some of what I believe Labour should stand for, particularly while they gradually move more to the centre to win a GE.
Friend or Foé
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:14 pm
Has liked: 58 likes
Total likes: 98 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Friend or Foé »

Clacton-ammer wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:58 am I am one of those strange breeds as I have no affiliation to any party, voted red & blue in my time. The peeps that have supported Labour from voting age, do you think Starmers Labour is creeping more to the centre, and that is part of the attraction, or it's just the shower in govt now? Or maybe both?
Not so Strange Clacton, in fact you’re probably in a majority of sensible and more considerate people than the myopic type that allow our politics to become a pathetic mess by blindly supporting egotistical maniacs and their non-sensical plans.
User avatar
dasnutnock3
Posts: 6457
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:38 pm
Has liked: 1859 likes
Total likes: 2445 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by dasnutnock3 »

Those “I’ve always voted X” types are very odd people (IMO). They’re political parties, not football clubs, and you don’t get any points for loyalty.
User avatar
OFT
Posts: 21544
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:59 pm
Location: Sleepin’ in a bayou on a old rotten cot
Has liked: 2998 likes
Total likes: 1759 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by OFT »

dasnutnock3 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:51 pm Those “I’ve always voted X” types are very odd people (IMO). They’re political parties, not football clubs, and you don’t get any points for loyalty.
Both wings of my parents families were very poor, My grandmother on Dads side (twice widowed) worked into her 80's as a domestic, she was expected to vote Tory or lose her job. My grandfather on Mums side left school at 14 to work on the railways, he had been offered a 'scholarship' to stay on at school but the family could not afford him not to work.
The Labour and union movements enabled them to improve their lot with each generation, so I'll remain a lifelong Labour voter for however many years I have left , not least because, as a grandad myself, IMO it's the best chance we've got of not going back to where we once were.

Glad to be odd :winker:
Friend or Foé
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:14 pm
Has liked: 58 likes
Total likes: 98 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Friend or Foé »

dasnutnock3 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:51 pm Those “I’ve always voted X” types are very odd people (IMO). They’re political parties, not football clubs, and you don’t get any points for loyalty.
Very odd people aren’t they ?
Never understood why anybody would give so much slack
to a politician or party just because they and their family have always voted for party x for generations. Even as devout football fans you even get to a point where you start to lose faith with a player (quite quickly sometimes) and at least in that world of tribal myopia there’s absolutely no hiding how crap or good your are. First of all you will be instantaneously castigated for an error by an entire football ground and secondly your league position will easily tell you exactly how you’re performing. None of this polling tripe that depends on how a certain question is asked in a certain manner by a polling organisation tasked with coming up with the correct result by another organisation who has funded the poll.
We’d be better off as a country if no party could ever rely on anyones support and had to really work to get every vote by getting its pledges right and delivering on them.
I sometimes pop into this forum to read with bewilderment with the same people having the exact same arguments along the exact same party lines, only for one of those types to vehemently deny being a passionate Labourite or Tory ??
User avatar
SammyLeeWasOffside
Posts: 21694
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:31 am
Has liked: 290 likes
Total likes: 1026 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

OFT wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:26 pm The Labour and union movements enabled them to improve their lot with each generation, so I'll remain a lifelong Labour voter for however many years I have left , not least because, as a grandad myself, IMO it's the best chance we've got of not going back to where we once were.

Glad to be odd :winker:
When you say once were, where do you mean.

My X always goes in the non of the above. Both my parents (mum especially) were saved from poverty by the 11 plus. Both worked in heavily unionised fields and had their careers massively disrupted by a series of union action. The Tories left this region for dead in the 80s and labour shut everything and stuck us all on state handouts in the 2000s. Locally labour councillors are on a par with the most corrupt of Tory ministers. So I'll leave them both alone.
Friend or Foé
Posts: 542
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2022 7:14 pm
Has liked: 58 likes
Total likes: 98 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Friend or Foé »

OFT wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:26 pm Both wings of my parents families were very poor,
Being very poor or working class in the UK or indeed any country in the world isn’t really something that put you in an exclusive category. Most people in the UK are from those family backgrounds. If anything it’s more of an announcement that you came from middle / upper class standings. I can’t stand hearing celebrities telling of their working class credentials. Who cares ! Except when they really didn’t!!!
I fully expect that at least 99% of people posting on a football forum to be securely from a working class family.
User avatar
dasnutnock3
Posts: 6457
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:38 pm
Has liked: 1859 likes
Total likes: 2445 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by dasnutnock3 »

Friend or Foé wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:27 amWe’d be better off as a country if no party could ever rely on anyones support and had to really work to get every vote by getting its pledges right and delivering on them.
My view entirely, and I'm pretty convinced that it's tribal commitment to a single party that enables the de facto two party system.
User avatar
Hummer_I_mean_Hammer
Posts: 11576
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:45 pm
Has liked: 938 likes
Total likes: 475 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

OFT wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 9:26 pm Both wings of my parents families were very poor, My grandmother on Dads side (twice widowed) worked into her 80's as a domestic, she was expected to vote Tory or lose her job. My grandfather on Mums side left school at 14 to work on the railways, he had been offered a 'scholarship' to stay on at school but the family could not afford him not to work.
The Labour and union movements enabled them to improve their lot with each generation, so I'll remain a lifelong Labour voter for however many years I have left , not least because, as a grandad myself, IMO it's the best chance we've got of not going back to where we once were.

Glad to be odd :winker:
Face it OFT, you're just a glory supporter.. :winker:
User avatar
Denbighammer
Posts: 12871
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:53 pm
Location: Dodging, Dipping, Diving, Ducking and Dodging.
Has liked: 697 likes
Total likes: 431 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by Denbighammer »

dasnutnock3 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:48 am My view entirely, and I'm pretty convinced that it's tribal commitment to a single party that enables the de facto two party system.
And we become more like the Americans every day. The minor parties, including the Liberal Democrats (remember them?) are becoming increasingly marginalised.

Half the time people are so rabid in their support of Labour, not because they especially love Labour or support their policies but because they hate the Tories and their supporters even more. And vice versa.

Republican vs Democrat dogma is here.
User avatar
sendô
Posts: 44311
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
Has liked: 2424 likes
Total likes: 2633 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by sendô »

Denbighammer wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:26 am Half the time people are so rabid in their support of Labour, not because they especially love Labour or support their policies but because they hate the Tories and their supporters even more. And vice versa.
In fairness, a lot of people have a lot of reason to hate the Tories.

Although I'll agree that in recent years social media has fuelled a polarisation of views into two general opposing camps. Classic divide and rule.
User avatar
OFT
Posts: 21544
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:59 pm
Location: Sleepin’ in a bayou on a old rotten cot
Has liked: 2998 likes
Total likes: 1759 likes

Re: Next Labour Leader

Post by OFT »

Friend or Foé wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:27 am Very odd people aren’t they ?

I sometimes pop into this forum to read with bewilderment with the same people having the exact same arguments along the exact same party lines, only for one of those types to vehemently deny being a passionate Labourite or Tory ??
I'm not saying that I agree with everything the Labour party suggest but remain a 'hard core' voter and would never deny it.
SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:39 am When you say once were, where do you mean.
Bearing in mind my grandparents were born late 1800's/early 1900's)
No NHS, limited workers rights, very limited educational opportunities,... some of which we seem to be heading under this mob.
As a union member through the 70's I agree it got out of hand, the pendulum swung too far so to speak, but there's no denying, to me at least where my bread is buttered.

I also accept that to a lesser degree my 'political' upbringing remains effective.

Call me odd.. I don't care :grin:
Last edited by OFT on Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply