2022 Six Nations

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sendô
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by sendô »

pablo jaye wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 6:30 am I agree with your last point Eggs - just over a year away from a World Cup, you’d expect a team to be ‘almost there’ in terms of personnel and performances. England aren’t anywhere near it - France, Scotland even look more advanced.
I think we've been fortunate that we've been gifted a very winnable group, and will then likely get Wales or Australia in the QF, two teams that look as much "in transition" as us at the moment.

We'll lose in the semis as soon as we come up against NZ/France, but that will somehow be viewed as a decent tournament.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by Toulouse_Iron »

sendô wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:23 pm I think we've been fortunate that we've been gifted a very winnable group, and will then likely get Wales or Australia in the QF, two teams that look as much "in transition" as us at the moment.

We'll lose in the semis as soon as we come up against NZ/France, but that will somehow be viewed as a decent tournament.
I think anything less than the semis will be a disgrace. No disrespect to the other teams mentioned but the sheer number of registered players at all levels of English clubs dwarfs any other nation except France, so we should be up there with them. We have been "in transition" now for over 4 years and I don't think we will accomplish anything by chopping and changing every single match. The French team is settled, everyone knows what the plan is and when, and how to wing it. It helps when you have a Dupont pulling the strings and an Edwards coaching the defensive duties but England are not bereft of talent:: it seems like it is just coached out of them.
They should be confident in and familiar enough with their team mates to be able to mix things up when the moment is right. They just look like they're painting by numbers 97% of the time.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by Chicken Run Supreme »

I do follow the 6 nations and the World Cup but that’s about all so I’m not an officianado of the game but there is one thing that I really don’t understand, why has Shaun Edwards been ignored by English rugby?
3 Grand Slams with Wales and now 1 with France, he knows his onions it would seem.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

He was offered the job of coaching England Saxons (the second fifteen) but took the Wales assistant coach job instead.

I agree, it's baffling why he's not the England coach.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by Loftyhammer »

Chicken Run Supreme wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:44 pm I do follow the 6 nations and the World Cup but that’s about all so I’m not an officianado of the game but there is one thing that I really don’t understand, why has Shaun Edwards been ignored by English rugby?
3 Grand Slams with Wales and now 1 with France, he knows his onions it would seem.
My guess is that EJ doesn't want someone else there who is likely to challenge him. He doesn't take very kindly to "suggestions" whether it be from players or coaches....is what I've gathered

And if it's not that, then I'm genuinely baffled
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by dave_l »

Edwards has rarely been available at the times England have had a vacancy to be fair. That said, where there's a will there's usually a way.

Jones has outstayed his welcome and is now at a point where he's trying to be weird and wonderful and follow some form of weird philosophy rather than do the actual job. It's what marked Taggart out as a better boss than Wenger - Wenger went philosophy heavy post that unbeaten season while Ferguson seemed to keep his focus on the day job and letting the philosophy take care of itself.

Jones had an opportunity with the Saracens players out of the premiership for a year in 20/21 to essentially say that we'll use the 2020 Autumn series and 2021 6 nations as a transition period. It was a ready made excuse - half my key guys aren't match fit, I need to see what others can do. What transpired what a half fit Billy Vunipola played instead of seeing if Simmonds or Dombrandt were up to it, a half fit Farrell played instead of seeing Marcus Smith or Joe Simmonds directing operations with actual strike runners outside them. His inability to blood a replacement for Youngs at any point is also a glaring failing - Youngs hasn't been the player he was for a while now but first Jones went for Heinz post Care (older than Youngs) and has ignored Spencer and looks like lobbing Randall in at the deep end. High hopes for Quirke though. This 6 nations we had Marcus Smith having two slow wingers and only Marchant playing his actual position to deal with.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by alf git »

England's women won the Grand Slam yesterday.
Fourth championship in a row, now unbeaten for 23 matches.
They played some really good rugby throughout the tournament and were deserved winners.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by dasnutnock3 »

I see we’ve picked up where we left off. Ragged.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by alf git »

England were poor today. Lack of discipline ultimately cost us.
You can blame cobwebs if you're being generous but a year out from the world cup and we still don't seem to have an identity.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by 3times »

England need to bin Youngs & Nowell, B Vunipola, poss even Cokanasiga, play either one of Farrell/Smith but not both, Itoje back at second row. Bring in Slade, Radwan/Murley/ May, Simmonds. Start with RVP or Quirke at 9, get some speed in the back row.

Injury has meant no Dombrandt, Lawes, Lynagh, Randall, Underhill, Arundell, Ludlum. George back for this weekend apparently.

All irrelevant though as Youngs will start at 9 and slow the game down, Itoje will be at 6 when there are better players available.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by We_are_BML »

Surely time for Smith to go even with a world cup in less than a years time.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by westhamgardner »

We_are_BML wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:22 am Surely time for Smith to go even with a world cup in less than a years time.
He has the potential to be world class but doesn't fit at all in Eddie's game plan and it has the potential to destroy his confidence.
The Vunipolas need to go - Billy doesn't offer anything and Mako can't scrum.
Too late in the day to twist before the world cup but right now it's very hard to defend Eddie. 1 win in 4 at home over the Autumn with the players at our disposal is criminal (as is not picking Ben Earl).
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by We_are_BML »

I'd get rid of the Vunipolas, Youngs, Farrell, Tuilagi and May. Most of these have been in and around the setup for 10 years plus, surely there are better options out there.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by alf git »

It's Jones that needs to go, not Smith.

There's been some good rugby played during the autumn internationals. Unfortunately not much of it has been played by England. We were well beaten by South Africa yesterday.
Two losses a draw and a solitary win over Japan really isn't good enough. It's not even as if we were experimenting in any meaningful way. There's a lack of composure in key area's but more worryingly a lack of discipline that doesn't show any sign of improvement.
I said after the Argentina match that England were lacking an identity. The last 10 minutes against New Zealand showed what we are capable of but for some reason seem reluctant to execute consistently.
I fear next year isn't going to be a pleasant watch.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by Loftyhammer »

England were battered up front by a very very good SA side yesterday and if you don't have that platform it's very tough to do much in the game. Having said that, it really feels like we've been playing with handbrake on for a while now. Farrell and Smith doesn't seem to be working.... neither bring the best out of each other. For me, it should be Smith, Manu, Slade at 10, 12, 13. Slade is real class and makes such a difference when he comes on. I'd definitely keep Youngs around...he had a real impact in the AB's game when he came on.

Don't think it is too close to WC to bin EJ personally...as long as we have a very clear idea of who comes in. Not overly against Gatland in short term (he's used to bringing teams together in short period of time)... but we should be moving heaven and earth to get Farrell and Edwards in longer term.

Can't see them binning him off though due to £££££
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by alf git »

Loftyhammer wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 12:05 pm

Don't think it is too close to WC to bin EJ personally...as long as we have a very clear idea of who comes in. Not overly against Gatland in short term (he's used to bringing teams together in short period of time)... but we should be moving heaven and earth to get Farrell and Edwards in longer term.

Agree with this.

Just read that this calendar year was England's worst since 2008.
Jones has been in post for seven years and has taken us backwards.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

RFU review into 'disappointing' autumn series
The Rugby Football Union will conduct a review into England's "really disappointing" autumn campaign, but have stopped short of offering their backing to head coach Eddie Jones.

The RFU review panel will hold a series of meetings over the next two weeks to discuss the autumn series, which yielded one win from four matches.

Chief executive Bill Sweeney says the union shares the frustrations of fans.

"Like them we are really disappointed with the results," he said.

In a statement, a day after the 27-13 defeat by South Africa, Sweeney added: "Despite strong individual performances and some great new talent coming through, the overall results are not where we expect them to be.

"We would like to thank England fans for their patience and support, it matters to us how they feel."


There is no mention of Jones in the statement, with the head coach's position under scrutiny after five wins from 12 matches in the calendar year.

Dispensing with Jones at this stage would mark a major deviation from the RFU's oft-stated plan, with both union and head coach fixated on next year's Rugby World Cup in France.

However, union sources have told the BBC they are unable to comment on his position ahead of the review, so as not to pre-empt its findings.


more...

Hardly a ringing endorsement for Jones.
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by We_are_BML »

alf git wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:42 am It's Jones that needs to go, not Smith.

There's been some good rugby played during the autumn internationals. Unfortunately not much of it has been played by England. We were well beaten by South Africa yesterday.
Two losses a draw and a solitary win over Japan really isn't good enough. It's not even as if we were experimenting in any meaningful way. There's a lack of composure in key area's but more worryingly a lack of discipline that doesn't show any sign of improvement.
I said after the Argentina match that England were lacking an identity. The last 10 minutes against New Zealand showed what we are capable of but for some reason seem reluctant to execute consistently.
I fear next year isn't going to be a pleasant watch.
Jones is who I meant not Smith :crylol:
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by Chicken Run Supreme »

I’d get Gatland in before Wales tempt him back
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Re: 2022 Six Nations

Post by Loftyhammer »

We_are_BML wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:09 pm Jones is who I meant not Smith :crylol:
I did wonder! Thought it was a bit harsh :rofl:
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