Plashet Grove Pete wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:35 pm
Fair enough. If there are literally books written I take my previous comment back.
But just to be clear, it's OK to ask a white person where they're from, but not a black person? So we should treat them differently on account of their colour?
It is ok to ask anyone where they are from. What isn’t alright is once they’ve answered to challenge them on it (repeatedly) whatever the colour of their skin, what they are wearing, your age and mental capacity.
The colour of their skin just decides whether you are plain rude or plain rude with the possibility of a sprinkle of casual racism.
As Hammer1966 has pointed out, the “no, where are you really from…” is a trigger question everyone in this day and age should be aware of.
Friend or Foé wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 1:55 pm
Yet again that was the point. We all have only the details we are dealt through the same sources. What we don’t have is the intent from the old toff. But that hasn’t stopped anyone deciding that it was totally racially motivated. That therefore is also fiction.
Well no it isn’t as one of the parties involved I.e. someone first hand has put that version out. Now there will always be bias in first hand accounts, but given the other party didn’t challenge it and has apologised I think we are allowed to take it at face value. So that is fact. Fact you can challenge the context of. Fact that you can challenge the motive behind sharing but still fact vs your made up b*llocks.
Plashet Grove Pete wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:35 pm
Fair enough. If there are literally books written I take my previous comment back.
But just to be clear, it's OK to ask a white person where they're from, but not a black person? So we should treat them differently on account of their colour?
At the risk of repeating myself and coming across as condescending (I'm trying not to so apologies if you feel like I am)...
She was asked where she was from. She answered. She was then asked where she was really from because the person asking the question didn't accept her answer because of the colour of her skin. It's not the first question that's the issue here. People of colour have consistently highlighted this kind of questioning as a problem for them for years. This isn't new. She wasn't the first privileged, upper class white person to push the 'really from' line at a black person and she won't be the last. Which is why it's a problem. Because a lot of black people see it as a challenge to their identity. If you're not 'really' from here then you don't belong. It's a loaded question that can trigger the reaction it got in this instance.
The best part about all this righteousness and indignation is that those expressing it now will almost certainly find themselves on the receiving end of the same in a few years time.
dasnutnock3 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:55 pm
The best part about all this righteousness and indignation is that those expressing it now will almost certainly find themselves on the receiving end of the same in a few years time.
Especially nowadays where it appears to carry weight at being offended on behalf of someone else, despite not receiving any personal offence.
dasnutnock3 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:55 pm
The best part about all this righteousness and indignation is that those expressing it now will almost certainly find themselves on the receiving end of the same in a few years time.
I’ve been on the receiving end of a false accusation of racism at work. Didn’t change my views or approach at all. Just made me realise the person involved was a complete c***.
I’ve also seen plenty of actual racism in my time and like to think I know the difference.
I’m also yet to meet anyone who plays the woke, PC gone crazy card who isn’t a complete ****hole.
Hammer1966 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:47 pm
People of colour
We’ve imported a lot of cringe Americanisms in this country down the years, but this has to be one of the absolute worst. Are the rest of us “colourless”? Is grouping everyone into white vs non white helpful?
There is rarely if ever a discussion on race anywhere these days that does not make cringe, because it always ends up with some variation of “you cant do that because your skin colour is wrong”.
MB wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:25 pm
I’ve been on the receiving end of a false accusation of racism at work. Didn’t change my views or approach at all. Just made me realise the person involved was a complete c***.
Yes, I've been there, spent 6 weeks suspended from work, until I got a hearing, the accuser was indeed a complete c***, who admitted to me on the day he left, a couple of years laterthat he did it in a fit of pique
MB wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 2:45 pm
Well no it isn’t as one of the parties involved I.e. someone first hand has put that version out. Now there will always be bias in first hand accounts, but given the other party didn’t challenge it and has apologised I think we are allowed to take it at face value. So that is fact. Fact you can challenge the context of. Fact that you can challenge the motive behind sharing but still fact vs your made up b*llocks.
Royal protocol won’t allow for tit-fir-tat spats, so you won’t get a challenge. So it’s pretty easy to make an accusation against them or their reps and I’m pretty certain that could be factored in when an accusation is made, so I wouldn’t judge the confidence of your justification if basing it upon that. It seems that there are plenty here that find what has gone on as along the same lines as I’ve suggested. i.e. the old toff has approached the situation incorrectly and miss “african name” has made a bit of a meal of it.
You’re never going to eliminate genuine cultural differences creating misunderstandings , whether you or I perceive it to be racism or not.
In London, I’d often get “where are you from?” and my first response was “originally?” As far as I was concerned, London was home. As diverse as London is, most who drank in the E6 pubs had lived in Newham their entire lives.
"In the statement on Wednesday, the Palace said they had "reached out to Ngozi Fulani on this matter" - but the next day, Ms Fulani told the BBC no direct contact had been made.
The BBC now understands dialogue is taking place with Ms Fulani's team - but at this stage no further details are being shared".
sendô wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:44 pm
We’ve imported a lot of cringe Americanisms in this country down the years, but this has to be one of the absolute worst. Are the rest of us “colourless”? Is grouping everyone into white vs non white helpful?
I'm sure you're completely see-through, just like me, sendo..
It could seem like, white isn't a colour in terms of the saying. Not that white people are actually white. Even albinos' skin isn't white, white, as far as I know.
Even totally 'white' people with some known, black ancestry, are referred to as a 'person of colour'.
If we all came from Africa originally, shirley we're all 'people of colour'.
Samba wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 10:40 pm
I'm sure you're completely see-through, just like me, sendo..
It could seem like, white isn't a colour in terms of the saying. Not that white people are actually white. Even albinos' skin isn't white, white, as far as I know.
Even totally 'white' people with some known, black ancestry, are referred to as a 'person of colour'.
If we all came from Africa originally, shirley we're all 'people of colour'.
I think, but not sure, it comes from when white Americans would refer to everyone else as a person of colour, thinking it was better than the other terms they had for Blacks, Mexicans, Chinese etc etc
sendô wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 3:44 pm
We’ve imported a lot of cringe Americanisms in this country down the years, but this has to be one of the absolute worst. Are the rest of us “colourless”? Is grouping everyone into white vs non white helpful?
There is rarely if ever a discussion on race anywhere these days that does not make cringe, because it always ends up with some variation of “you cant do that because your skin colour is wrong”.
It looks like the equally ridiculous "BAME" is thankfully on the way out:
