The Labour Party Thread

[DaveWHU1964]

Only one Prime Minister was on show in the Commons today, and it wasn't the little fella in the shrunken suit.

I have some reservations about Starmer but overall he's done a far better job than anyone could have expected. Basically, he's doing just fine.

Asan example, there was a 'red wall' voting intention poll out today that shows Labour on 53% and the Tories on 27%. As the Tories led in these seats by 9% in the 2019 general election, that's a swing of 17.5%. Labour are as well placed as they could possibly hope to be. The job's not done yet but his leadership has put them in a good place.

[DaveWHU1964]

To illustrate my above point, I've just seen this survey of Tory voters that asked them how they would feel about a Labour win at the next election. they said ...

Satisfied: 22%
Not bothered: 23%
Dissatisfied: 52%

So nearly half of them would be either satisfied or not bothered with a Starmer win. I think that's quite amazing to be honest seeing where Labour started from when Starmer got the job. I wonder what those figures were under Corbyn.

Starmer has detoxified the party even amongst all but half of even Tory voters. Like I say, nowhere near done yet, but he's been doing just fine.

[bubbles1966]

To illustrate my above point, I've just seen this survey

Link please?

[DaveWHU1964]

I know - unbelievable isn’t it?

Referred to in the Ben Walker tweet of 20th Jan on the below site and by the looks of it, written up in the New Statesman. I don’t have access to the NS this will have to do ….

https://twitter.com/BritainElects?ref_s ... r%5Eauthor

The tweet underneath that one gives further illustration.

[bubbles1966]

I have seen the data sets now - it's the same lot showing up in the yougov datasets. Don't know/won't vote/Reform polling 30-40% among the middle aged.

[Clacton-ammer]

Really?
I'd trust him as far as I could throw him, especially with regard to the NHS.
Both he and Starmer have taken funding from those with involvement in private healthcare companies. They won't be giving their money away free - they'll want some quid pro quo for their quids- that's for sure.

https://inwhoseinterests.home.blog/2022 ... nt-page-1/

Apologies for lack of reply irons, I missed this.

I presume in that link all is true? Working on that is is it does not surprise me, parties need funding, they just need to make sure there is no promises given or they feel they have to reciprocate, and I guess there lies the problem, not a new one though is it?!?!

NHS needs an overhaul, rethink, change, whatever, but something is required. Wes Streeting for me is talking about it knowing that they are in opposition, think that is quite brave, or a calculated risk knowing that many people looking in from the outside regarding all things NHS thinking what a total clusterfuck it is.

I would still be hugely in favour of all parties creating an NHS committee of sorts. with equal seats to have a 10 - 20 year plan that has to be adhered to by any party coming into power, write it into law if they have to.

[mumbles87]

Apologies for lack of reply irons, I missed this.

I presume in that link all is true? Working on that is is it does not surprise me, parties need funding, they just need to make sure there is no promises given or they feel they have to reciprocate, and I guess there lies the problem, not a new one though is it?!?!

NHS needs an overhaul, rethink, change, whatever, but something is required. Wes Streeting for me is talking about it knowing that they are in opposition, think that is quite brave, or a calculated risk knowing that many people looking in from the outside regarding all things NHS thinking what a total clusterfuck it is.

I would still be hugely in favour of all parties creating an NHS committee of sorts. with equal seats to have a 10 - 20 year plan that has to be adhered to by any party coming into power, write it into law if they have to.

Entirely what I want. This party system simply doesn't work. It fails on the small issues let alone the big issues. We need joined up thinking with ideas from all sides

I don't trust the Tories with the NHS but leaving it as it is will just cost more and more

[ironsonthebrain]

To illustrate my above point, I've just seen this survey of Tory voters that asked them how they would feel about a Labour win at the next election. they said ...

Satisfied: 22%
Not bothered: 23%
Dissatisfied: 52%

So nearly half of them would be either satisfied or not bothered with a Starmer win. I think that's quite amazing to be honest seeing where Labour started from when Starmer got the job. I wonder what those figures were under Corbyn.

Starmer has detoxified the party even amongst all but half of even Tory voters. Like I say, nowhere near done yet, but he's been doing just fine.

Detoxified? The ‘toxification’ came from the media and from people in Starmer’s shadow cabinet constantly sniping ( and lying) about Corbyn.
Starmer’s simply morphed Labour into Tories as the Tories morphed into UKIP. Which is exactly what I would have expected from the Establishment’s choice of leader of the opposition.

[bubbles1966]

Here's a viewpoint on Starmer's integrity , or lack of, from a former member of Labour's NEC.

https://unherd.com/2023/01/keir-starmer ... -hyde-act/

Expect a seven year long thread demanding a re-vote.

[ironsonthebrain]

Apologies for lack of reply irons, I missed this.

I presume in that link all is true? Working on that is is it does not surprise me, parties need funding, they just need to make sure there is no promises given or they feel they have to reciprocate, and I guess there lies the problem, not a new one though is it?!?!

NHS needs an overhaul, rethink, change, whatever, but something is required. Wes Streeting for me is talking about it knowing that they are in opposition, think that is quite brave, or a calculated risk knowing that many people looking in from the outside regarding all things NHS thinking what a total clusterfuck it is.

I would still be hugely in favour of all parties creating an NHS committee of sorts. with equal seats to have a 10 - 20 year plan that has to be adhered to by any party coming into power, write it into law if they have to.

One of the problems with Streeting ( and Starmer) is all they are offering is more involvement of the private sector in the NHS - because that’s that’s really worked out well though hasn’t it?

https://inwhoseinterests.home.blog/2022 ... nt-page-1/


Interestingly both have received funding for their campaigning from people with close links to private healthcare providers. But that’s just a coincidence isn’t it?

[dave_l]

There will always be Private Sector involvement in the NHS unless it starts to do absolutely everything itself. Which it will never do.

[DaveWHU1964]

Detoxified? The ‘toxification’ came from the media and from people in Starmer’s shadow cabinet constantly sniping ( and lying) about Corbyn.
Starmer’s simply morphed Labour into Tories as the Tories morphed into UKIP. Which is exactly what I would have expected from the Establishment’s choice of leader of the opposition.

Yes, de-toxified. If a bloke like me whom with one exception in my life has always voted Labour and who doesn't get my opinions from the Mail/ Express etc couldn't stand the bloke, then it's easy for me to understand why so many others wanted to steer well clear.

Did the press paint him in a bad way? Yeah, of course - it's what they do with anyone who doesn't tow their line/ have their world-view. Was it all down to the press as to why he was reviled by a big percentage of the population? Of course not, many of us, including on the left, such as myself thought he was a ****. That's not to say all of his policies are wrong by the way - fare from it - I'm talking about the man here. As I don't think even the Mail called him a ****, that's my own independent assessment of the man. It's too easy to blame the press sometimes - scum as much of them are. Sometimes we need to look at our own failings or in his case his, but I could see why it's comforting for him and his followers to belief that he'd have been loved and admired if it hadn't been for the press.

So yes, I'll stand by de-toxifying. Bubbles asked me for a link upthread - clearly he doubted what I'd said. Clearly at face value it didn't look right that half of Tory voters would be 'satisfied' or 'not bothered' if Starmer became the next PM. That's some shift in less than three years. It's de-toxification.

And do you really think that Labour are now the Tories? I hear that "they're all the same argument" on here but it normally comes from the right and it's rubbish argument. Ask yourself this, would you be equally disappointed by Starmer winning the next election as Sunak (or whoever happens to be Tory PM that particular week). If your answer is yes then so be it, albeit I'd think you're wrong. If you wouldn't be equally disappointed because you'd prefer Starmer then regardless of what you said, Labour are not the same as the Tories.

[Plashet Grove Pete]

One of the problems with Streeting ( and Starmer) is all they are offering is more involvement of the private sector in the NHS - because that’s that’s really worked out well though hasn’t it?

So given you've decided neither the Tories or Labour has any idea how to fix the NHS, what do you think should happen next? And where does your vote go at the next election?

[bubbles1966]

The point is that it's a matter of principle for many Labour/left wing voters.

Many people, including on these pages, have gone on about 'Tory' privatisation of the NHS and many other services for years, and now Starmer and Streeting are close to ditching their opposition and adopting frequently heard right wing views.

How many of their voters are also willing to ditch their principles? Ironsonthebrain won't be alone in thinking , "I don't vote Labour to get the Tories", just as the Tories are in a mess at the moment because they have been behaving like Gordon Brown for 18 months.

[OFT]

Is that going to be the basis of Tory campaiging at the election I wonder.
, Labour are just 'Tory Lite' so you may as well stick with us.

[bubbles1966]

Is that going to be the basis of Tory campaiging at the election I wonder.
, Labour are just 'Tory Lite' so you may as well stick with us.

It's Labour's campaign.

Starmer is banking on the unquestioning tribalism of the Labour vote and their desperation to be rid of the Tories to hold it all together as he courts the socially and fiscally conservative. He's a Blair retread and he's trying to be all things to all people.

Unlike Blair though, he lacks an element of charisma which is very evident in his poor personal polling - he's miles short of where Blair was at similar points in the electoral cycle - and he has the issue of both the SNP and Greens to his left.

Luckily for him, the front benches of all the major parties are charisma free zones. Sunak is equally dull and is petrified of Reform/BXP/UKIP to his right.

[Monkeybubbles]

It's Labour's campaign.

Starmer is banking on the unquestioning tribalism of the Labour vote and their desperation to be rid of the Tories to hold it all together as he courts the socially and fiscally conservative. He's a Blair retread and he's trying to be all things to all people.

Unlike Blair though, he lacks an element of charisma which is very evident in his poor personal polling - he's miles short of where Blair was at similar points in the electoral cycle - and he has the issue of both the SNP and Greens to his left.

Luckily for him, the front benches of all the major parties are charisma free zones. Sunak is equally dull and is petrified of Reform/BXP/UKIP to his right.

So:

Sunak's blandness cancels Starmer.
Johnson's corruption cancels Corbyn.
And therefore the incompetence of Truss wins. And the Tories lose.

Vote Green.

[EvilC]

Shock.

[EvilC]

Chef's kiss.

[smuts]

We will take it as no you didn't then Ian.