David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

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szola
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by szola »

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... ain-off-it

Is this a topic that is relevant to us, as a club & as a team?

Are we in a weaker position, in the support roles and therefore less able to handle the pressure that is top flight football?
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by El brooko79 »

Gazmundo wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 11:28 pm It's a matter of time before the Moyes bashers claim that beating or drawing with Newcastle doesn't count because they had a midweek EFL cup semi.

Things have changed since Aguerd came into the team.
We played Mon, they played Tues. Not a huge advantage.
A result against Newcastle would be a fantastic result.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by MB »

szola wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:23 am https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... ain-off-it

Is this a topic that is relevant to us, as a club & as a team?

Are we in a weaker position, in the support roles and therefore less able to handle the pressure that is top flight football?
I'm amazed they had so many people who could leave! You really see the difference in the depth of their backroom vs ours.

But yes, I am sure backroom changes has had an impact on us. I still struggle with the idea of Stuart "Keyser" Pearce being the mastermind behind it all (!), but Irving going as well. Warburton not being popular. Newman coming in and trying to assert himself (I imagine) and now Noble as well with what sounds like an ill-defined role.

On top of that I highly doubt Sullivan is anymore hands off.

It is all a bit of a mess.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Ozza »

MB wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:36 pm I'm amazed they had so many people who could leave! You really see the difference in the depth of their backroom vs ours.

But yes, I am sure backroom changes has had an impact on us. I still struggle with the idea of Stuart "Keyser" Pearce being the mastermind behind it all (!), but Irving going as well. Warburton not being popular. Newman coming in and trying to assert himself (I imagine) and now Noble as well with what sounds like an ill-defined role.

On top of that I highly doubt Sullivan is anymore hands off.

It is all a bit of a mess.
Yup feels like more chaotic, scattergun thinking…almost like we need one of these things without understanding what the thing is or how to use it..

I’d say Everton are very similar, looks like loads of people with a say but no one with clear accountability

As you say a mess and symptomatic of barrow boy who made money in porn running a huge corporate business that needs structure and strategy, employing a mates daughter as his ceo
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by nickkarkie »

I think Moyes has lost the plot:

On Monday you played Flynn Downes, do you see him getting more minutes in the Premier League?

I do. I think Flynn's come on, he played really well against Liverpool and Manchester United in earlier Premier League games this season. I think the level of competition has been hard for Flynn. We've brought in Lucas Paqueta who is proving to be probably a deeper lying midfielder player then a 10 which we we brought Flynn Downes in to give us cover for Tomas Soucek and Declan Rice, Manuel Lanzini. So Flynn's done well, I think he's improving. I don't know how many players I've brought in from the Championship but let me tell you, it is a lot over the years. People like Joleon Lescott, Leighton Baines, Tim Cahill, can go on and on. And quite often a lot of them don't hit the ground running, a lot of them don't come into the first team. Leighton Baines and Phil Jagielka for example I think didn't play for me for six months when I was at Everton. We brought them out the Championship and they went on to be England full internationals so sometimes they have to be patient, wait their time, wait for opportunities and hopefully Flynn comes under that category and goes on to be a top player.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Colours never run »

MB wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:36 pm
But yes, I am sure backroom changes has had an impact on us. I still struggle with the idea of Stuart "Keyser" Pearce being the mastermind behind it all (!),
No one said he was, yet you keep saying it like people did though. :eh:

Some of us did though say Pearce and Irvine are a miss this season due to the set pieces going to **** all of a sudden.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by WCpete »

We’re wrong about Moyes, according to this dude.

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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

and as we all know, if my Auntie had..............

he actually countered his own argument in his opening statement imvho..
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by MB »

Colours never run wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:43 pm No one said he was, yet you keep saying it like people did though. :eh:

Some of us did though say Pearce and Irvine are a miss this season due to the set pieces going to **** all of a sudden.
in-joke
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by MB »

Ozza wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:01 pm Yup feels like more chaotic, scattergun thinking…almost like we need one of these things without understanding what the thing is or how to use it..

I’d say Everton are very similar, looks like loads of people with a say but no one with clear accountability

As you say a mess and symptomatic of barrow boy who made money in porn running a huge corporate business that needs structure and strategy, employing a mates daughter as his ceo
Yeah too much structure on the pitch and not enough off!
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Ozza »

MB wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:59 pm Yeah too much structure on the pitch and not enough off!
And yet the masses miss the obvious that’s been staring us all in the eyes for a decade

When the Scottish bloke exists we’ll realise the hole that’s left in relation to structure and keeping this thing whirring is my gut feeling and then we’re back on the hamster wheel
Last edited by Ozza on Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Ozza »

On another note sitting in my snug, wood burner on, listening to supergrass I should coco on vinyl absolute quality debit album and not thinking about the endless Moyes debate

I need to get off this forum
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

Ozza wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:22 pm On another note sitting in my snug, wood burner on,
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/2 ... ing-stoves

Many people view the wood-burning stove as an elitist status symbol, but many others just need it to heat their homes. Pro-environment activists are now campaigning for the government to phase out all domestic burning, with a specific ban on open fires and stoves.

I knew it, I just bloody well knew it !!!!!!!

:crylol:
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Ironing Board »

If only Moyes was as good a manager as the amazing Graham Potter we would really be rocking…
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Fraser »

He might have been better this season if he knew where to play the players he'd signed.


When Moyes first signed Paqueta, he admits that he intended on using him as the attacking midfielder, but has altered things recently to allow him to play in his preferred deeper role, where he often frequents for Brazil’s national team.

“When we bought Lucas, we looked at him as more of a No 10. We tried to bring in someone who could give us a link between the midfield and forward players and I still think it may be,” said Moyes.

“But his feeling is, if you look at where he's played for Brazil, it's tended to be Casemiro and Paqueta (in midfield) and Neymar getting the No 10 role. Lucas Paqueta was slightly deeper. So we've tried to give him the opportunity to play slightly deeper where he's played for Brazil. “I'll be honest, we brought him for eight to ten goals, for eight to ten assists.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by CarltonColesLeftFoot »

He's either tactically inflexible or he doesn't know where to play his players.

Pick one.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by MB »

It sounds bad Fraser but when you look at how Moyes uses that number 10 role you can understand his thinking and Paqueta should be perfect for that more hybrid role. Basically a better Lanzini and certainly not asking him to be Neymar!

Personally I think that role is flawed in conception, especially with how we defend and transition. Whoever plays it ends up putting in a decent shift without really consistently influencing the match.

The most worrying bit is clearly Paqueta has had a word. Did they not discuss this before signing him?
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Bubbles Fortuna »

Fraser wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:37 am He might have been better this season if he knew where to play the players he'd signed.


When Moyes first signed Paqueta, he admits that he intended on using him as the attacking midfielder, but has altered things recently to allow him to play in his preferred deeper role, where he often frequents for Brazil’s national team.

“When we bought Lucas, we looked at him as more of a No 10. We tried to bring in someone who could give us a link between the midfield and forward players and I still think it may be,” said Moyes.

“But his feeling is, if you look at where he's played for Brazil, it's tended to be Casemiro and Paqueta (in midfield) and Neymar getting the No 10 role. Lucas Paqueta was slightly deeper. So we've tried to give him the opportunity to play slightly deeper where he's played for Brazil. “I'll be honest, we brought him for eight to ten goals, for eight to ten assists.
Paqueta is listed as an attacking midfielder on just about every website you can look at.

In the first interview Moyes mentioned him he said we like him because he can play as a 10, as an 8, as a false 9.

You're blinded by your irrational hatred.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by Aztec Hammer »

Ironing Board wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 2:21 am If only Moyes was as good a manager as the amazing Graham Potter we would really be rocking…
We're 16th with 5 wins in 20 Premier League games.
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Re: David Moyes' Claret and Blue Army!

Post by MB »

Bubbles Fortuna wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 7:51 am Paqueta is listed as an attacking midfielder on just about every website you can look at.

In the first interview Moyes mentioned him he said we like him because he can play as a 10, as an 8, as a false 9.

You're blinded by your irrational hatred.
A bit harsh BF. Kehrer is listed as a centre back on most of those sites, but isn't to say you'd want him in that role in a 4ATB for us every week.

"Can" isn't the same as "should".

The player has a preference (probably in part linked to the Brazil team as let's face it he isn't getting in as a 10), Misko said he was better playing deeper for Lyon and we've all observed him struggle further up the pitch for us and look better with more of the game in front of him.

As I've said, I understand Moyes' reasoning and the player can play the role Moyes wants in that slot but I just think the role itself is flawed.
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