SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:12 am
This is surely in part down to the overwhelming message coming out if the various strikes about being paid more.
If the strikes are about conditions and the system it would be better to leave pay out of it. People looking from the outside tend to not see past 'i want a pay rise'.
you cant leave pay out of it as those involved insist that the talks are linked to pay.
they offer deals with conditions that something is taken on .
as been covered before. your just going over old topics.
delbert wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:27 am
The obvious answer is to make teachers retained fire fighters, they can park their nee-naw truck in the playground and in between shouts they can teach.
Sorted......
This subject will always remind me of Romford - firefighters and second jobs.
mumbles87 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:10 am
strikes arent instantly resolved .
the fact they have got the public on side and made a point.
Nurses, ambulance staff and fire fighters. All the other strikes don't have a majority of public support. Not that it matters tbh, public are happy to rattle a pan, not so keen to have their taxes go up to pay.
Sympathy wains as it impacts people directly imo. Rail workers had support until people actually needed to use the trains, then sympathy gets replaced by annoyance. Something like 15% strong support now the last polling I saw. If you are waiting for the public to rise up and demand you get what you are after you may have missed the boat.
The NHS stuff will get settled fairly quickly imo, firefighters and maybe teachers and border staff will get something next. The rest will just drift along until the election.
SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:12 am
This is surely in part down to the overwhelming message coming out if the various strikes about being paid more.
If the strikes are about conditions and the system it would be better to leave pay out of it. People looking from the outside tend to not see past 'i want a pay rise'.
It’s the easiest message to communicate the reason why teachers are striking.
“Teachers are striking because they’re not paid enough.” Simple, effective and clear.
“Teachers are striking because of, and insert every reason others and I have outlined in previous pages” and the message gets lost and convoluted.
Despite the reservations on here, many of the public back the teachers strike. There is a general acceptance they deserve better, and a new found admiration for the job they do especially after Covid.
mumbles87 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:34 am
you say apparently. you know it is.. you just like to try and belittle their point as you have with every strike
I really do admire you mumbles. I don't know anyone with your level of zeal and passion who is so completely and utterly convinced they are right about everything and as a result that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is wrong, uninformed about the facts and therefore ignorant.
Plashet Grove Pete wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:08 pm
I really do admire you mumbles. I don't know anyone with your level of zeal and passion who is so completely and utterly convinced they are right about everything and as a result that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is wrong, uninformed about the facts and therefore ignorant.
hammers92 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:01 pm
It’s the easiest message to communicate the reason why teachers are striking.
“Teachers are striking because they’re not paid enough.” Simple, effective and clear.
“Teachers are striking because of, and insert every reason others and I have outlined in previous pages” and the message gets lost and convoluted.
Despite the reservations on here, many of the public back the teachers strike. There is a general acceptance they deserve better, and a new found admiration for the job they do especially after Covid.
It is easy but it's also as far as most of the public get is my point.
If they are offered a pay rise to go back do they take it or say no it's about conditions?
Teachers get a limited amount of leeway and support but they are below the nurses now in the public pecking order. People will stick having to look after their kids on a work day for a little while but it will soon become more of a hassle and the tide could start to turn.
That's the irony of public sector strikes. The more people have to deal with the services not being provided the less they support the strikes for these jobs to be better.
mumbles87 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:34 am
you say apparently. you know it is.. you just like to try and belittle their point as you have with every strike
The point will get lost behind more pay it always does. I said apparently as no sod in the public seems to be aware that that's what it's about.
What does a sensible and logical resolution look like? If we assume that the public get bored and opinion swings, what happens if the workforce decide to take people’s advice and leave their jobs?
Who replaces them?
How do kids receive a good education?
Why would anyone want to be a teacher currently?
Are their salaries enough to live on and support their families at the moment?
I don’t know the answers to those questions myself but its where we’re heading if we continue to devalue a vital and essential public service.
If you want to talk about train drivers, I personally disagree with those strikes (sorry Mumbles!).
hammers92 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:30 pm
What does a sensible and logical resolution look like? If we assume that the public get bored and opinion swings, what happens if the workforce decide to take people’s advice and leave their jobs?
Who replaces them?
How do kids receive a good education?
Why would anyone want to be a teacher currently?
Are their salaries enough to live on and support their families at the moment?
I don’t know the answers to those questions myself but its where we’re heading if we continue to devalue a vital and essential public service.
If you want to talk about train drivers, I personally disagree with those strikes (sorry Mumbles!).
No worries. Im not a driver
I disagree with their drivers ones but their normal workers ones I'm on side with
However if you get the drivers out the power is with you so you kind of need them
Tfl strikes are about pensions and station job cuts
I'm against the strikes ATM as nothing is said about change to pensions it still just a review
And if you notice not a strike since November .. to me the rmt used tfl strikes to help network rail
As you notice when they cancelled network rail ones tfl had to go ahead as nothing changed
Since then we had a lot of network rail ones but not one tfl. Think they noted that they had overplayed that hand
Plashet Grove Pete wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:08 pm
I really do admire you mumbles. I don't know anyone with your level of zeal and passion who is so completely and utterly convinced they are right about everything and as a result that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is wrong, uninformed about the facts and therefore ignorant.
Erm, excuse me. I am always right, too.
Well, I was wrong once. There was this time when I thought I was wrong, but it turned out I was right the whole time, so I was only wrong about thinking I was wrong.
People start off with a degree of sympathy when an issue is first raised - but that is usually the high point. After a while, the strikes start eroding the sympathy and start to lose their impact as people work out ways round them.
Looking at the polling, most people say most of these strikes have absolutely no impact on them.
The polling implies that the strikes seem to predominantly crap on young people , mostly Londoners, though quite why they tell YouGov that the ambulance strikes directly affect them more than the frail and elderly makes you wonder what kind of people yougov deal with.
hammers92 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:30 pm
What does a sensible and logical resolution look like? If we assume that the public get bored and opinion swings, what happens if the workforce decide to take people’s advice and leave their jobs?
Who replaces them?
How do kids receive a good education?
Why would anyone want to be a teacher currently?
Are their salaries enough to live on and support their families at the moment?
That's getting into areas I could go on a long rant about lol. In short get politicians out of it. Is there any political scheme in the last 50 years that actually made education better (not just look better in the press).
If teachers leave en masse? No idea. Joe Wickes maybe.
The problem is not new. I remember my mum and her colleagues asking pretty much the same questions time after time. Every time the solution seemed good on the surface but made things worse in the long run.
hammers92 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:43 pm
What is the solution then?
What happens if we break the goodwill and love teachers have for their jobs by leaving?
What next? How does it get resolved?
Good luck getting answers to that here, or infinitely more importantly, elsewhere from those who oppose strikes.
Of course if politicians want to undermine public services so that they fail and they and their friends’ privatised services can replace them then we have a different answer. But it’s one that they cannot mention as it would be abhorrent to the vast majority of those who don’t work in Tufton Street.
SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:59 pm
That's getting into areas I could go on a long rant about lol. In short get politicians out of it. Is there any political scheme in the last 50 years that actually made education better (not just look better in the press).
You know what, I agree 100% with that. Policies and legislation that’s underpinned with sign off from those who work in the sector and know if it will be a success or not will result in better outcomes.
hammers92 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 12:43 pm
What is the solution then?
It depends what the actual issues are. I've googled to find out what they are but it all seems to be about pay.
Aside from pay what is needed? How do you make the job attractive again? It's decades of the state eroding trust in teachers and society shifting it's relationship with children. You can't fix that without radical change and a population that is willing to accept it.