Brexit referendum result aftermath

[-DL-]

All checkpoints are now manned, checkpoints for cars made in to dedicated coach lanes, and they expect the backlog to clear today - and ferry operators have been laying on extra sailings throughout the night according to BBC. There was also further delays yesterday due again to the weather.

It also appears ferry operators have made a ricket with underestimating the amount of coach parties travelling - so as I have been saying, there's a multitude of reasons as to what has caused this, Brexit being only a part of the jigsaw and not the reason.

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

It also appears ferry operators have made a ricket with underestimating the amount of coach parties travelling - so as I have been saying, there's a multitude of reasons as to what has caused this, Brexit being only a part of the jigsaw and not the reason.

I mentioned this earlier, how does that happen? Don't people have to book in advance and let them know what sort of vehicle they are travelling in.

[The Old Man of Storr]

I can't imagine many coaches turning up on the off-chance they were going to get on a boat - Dover would have known in advance .

[-DL-]

I can't imagine many coaches turning up on the off-chance they were going to get on a boat - Dover would have known in advance .

They have not turned up on the off chance. Dover wouldn't have known. This is down to the ferry operators for underestimating.

They're the ones that have made the mistake, not the port of Dover.

It's the ferry companies that give the information to the port in regards to expected traffic.

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

What do they need to estimate? They must know how many tickets they've sold, how many coaches have booked a passage.

[Essexmaniac]

So what was the point of your argument that they hadn't built extra booths?

There is no argument. We now have to have passports stamped, takes longer, more delays.
To ease the problems they had the chance to build more booths to ease the flow, they haven't.
No Brexit, less delays, no extra spend on extra booths and staff.

Instead, denial of any Brexit reality problems. Soon steps will have to be taken to smooth the issues where possible. See Sunak and Norn Iron.

[Essexmaniac]

I didn't think I was going mad - I wasn't entirely sure, but had a vague recollection when that when I went abroad via Dover before we left that we had our passports checked.

Checked but not stamped as they are now.

[-DL-]

What do they need to estimate? They must know how many tickets they've sold, how many coaches have booked a passage.

I asked my lovely friend Kimberly, who is a port operative for DFDS.

We work with historical data to estimate expected traffic and start planning for the peak seasons around 6 - 7 months in advance.

We estimate x amount of traffic is going to be coaches, x-amount is going to be HGV/freight, and so on and so on and plan accordingly and this is based on historical data as I said but this has been scewed the last few years due to the anomoly of covid affecting the travel industry.

If those plans are not almost spot on and a certain type of traffic is more than expected we face operational difficulties in loading and arranging vehicles on deck so that the vessel is properly balanced and has enough draft to clear the berths at lower tides. Some of the sailings may have the physical space for larger and heavier vehicles but if the amount can affect the stability of the vessel even slightly then they cannot go on and thats not even taking in to account the amount of extra bodies that we have to accommodate either.

If a sailing was entirely of coaches or entirely of HGVs or entirely of cars it wouldn't be a problem but with mixed traffic it is not as simple as just getting them on and away.

The industry has been caught with it's trousers down this year and with bad weather and passport control taking longer it has been a perfect storm.

Newhaven has also seen higher levels of coach traffic but there hasn't been the same issues as at Dover.

I can't wait for it to be over tbh because I was meant to be off this weekend my first getaway weekend in years but they have dragged me in. I'm exhausted and I am on day 11 of working straight.

I hope this helps.

[Essexmaniac]

A good insight from someone in the thick of it DL
Be interesting to hear what is expected when further changes to checks are due to happen, from around November I think?

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

There is no argument. We now have to have passports stamped, takes longer, more delays.
To ease the problems they had the chance to build more booths to ease the flow, they haven't.
No Brexit, less delays, no extra spend on extra booths and staff.

Instead, denial of any Brexit reality problems. Soon steps will have to be taken to smooth the issues where possible. See Sunak and Norn Iron.

Nobody is denying problems although there were also problems before as well I'm sure you would agree.

Of course things will have to be dealt with. That's what happens when thing change.

My point though was extra booths without manning would make not a bit of difference. Except you could come on and point to empty booths as a brexit waste of money.

[Essexmaniac]

Nobody is denying problems although there were also problems before as well I'm sure you would agree.

Of course things will have to be dealt with. That's what happens when thing change.

My point though was extra booths without manning would make not a bit of difference. Except you could come on and point to empty booths as a brexit waste of money.

It's all extra costs and hassles. If only more people had listened.

[Hammer1966]

I could probably Google this but...

The checks at the ferries, Eurostar, Eurotunnel etc are both British and French. Now the UK are no longer part of the EU why not push the French checks back into French territory? Just like for every other EU country?

[Hammer1966]

And is it the same going Harwich to Rotterdam?

[Essexmaniac]

I could probably Google this but...

The checks at the ferries, Eurostar, Eurotunnel etc are both British and French. Now the UK are no longer part of the EU why not push the French checks back into French territory? Just like for every other EU country?

Google ' Le Touqet agreement'. An agreement from 2003 with France to have checks on each others soil.

There's also this separately;

Juxtaposed controls (in French: bureaux à contrôles nationaux juxtaposés, or "BCNJ"; in Dutch: kantoren waar de nationale controles van beide landen naast elkaar geschieden) are a reciprocal arrangement between Belgium, France, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom whereby border controls on certain cross-Channel routes take place before boarding the train or ferry, rather than upon arrival after disembarkation. With the exception of the Eurotunnel Shuttle route, customs checks remain unaffected by juxtaposed immigration controls and continue to take place upon arrival after disembarkation.[1] Belgium, France and the Netherlands are all member states of the European Union and part of the border-free Schengen Area. The United Kingdom, on the other hand, has never participated in the Schengen Area, even when it was a member state of the European Union. As a result, juxtaposed controls aim to increase the convenience and efficiency of border checks when travelling by train or ferry between the Schengen Area and the UK by removing the need for immigration checks on arrival and by streamlining checks on departure. At the same time, juxtaposed controls are intended

[Hammer1966]

Thinking about it... Brussels Midi and Amsterdam also do the double passport check for Eurostar. Must be a land thing. I've never seen it at an airport.

[Hammer1966]

Google ' Le Touqet agreement'. An agreement from 2003 with France to have checks on each others soil.

Cheers. Increased efficiency eh?

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

It's all extra costs and hassles. If only more people had listened.

To your preferred view?

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

We've been skiing many times when we were in the EU and every time we had to go through passport control, on both outward and return journies.

[Essexmaniac]

To your preferred view?

Yes, in terms of several work colleagues who have admitted they regret their vote.

In general, listened to ( admittedly not loud enough) views of many respected politicians, business owners/ experts. Those who warned about increased prices, the Northern Ireland complications. Increased paperwork and prices. EU funding, the benefits of free trade, the single market. Lowering standards. Spending years untangling rules and standards we helped evolve.
All without knowing what type of new relationship we would end up with with our nearest and biggest trading block.

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

Yes, in terms of several work colleagues who have admitted they regret their vote.

In general, listened to ( admittedly not loud enough) views of many respected politicians, business owners/ experts. Those who warned about increased prices, the Northern Ireland complications. Increased paperwork and prices. EU funding, the benefits of free trade, the single market. Lowering standards. Spending years untangling rules and standards we helped evolve.
All without knowing what type of new relationship we would end up with with our nearest and biggest trading block.

Maybe people listened and didnt mind. As far as I can see on the ferries the only people moaning about the impact of brexit are those that didn't want brexit. That's fair enough but not really man bites dog stuff.

The problem with the whole thing from the start (well before the start) was it wasn't laid out in advance on either side. Obviously this is because you can't negotiate a leave deal in full with the EU and only then vote on leaving. Cameron tried to negotiate a remain deal and managed to achieve nothing except maybe adding a few leave votes.

Once we voted to leave there could (and probably should) have been a second vote on what that looked like. The problem. There was politicians couldn't agree on what that was and the desire to jam remain in for a second try.

Imo it was practically impossible to negotiate anything because our bottom line on FoM didn't fit with anything else the EU have in place. At that point (desirable or not) the only workable solution was to be outside and spend years working out how that worked in practice and negotiating the relationship where we could a bit at a time. That's the process that's happening now. All the bluster of 'getting it done', all the wailing for a second vote have died down and with politics out of the way somewhat people can get on with figuring out how they will operate. Ferry companies, for example, will need to adjust their systems for the new way of operating. Air travel companies seem to have managed it.