Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

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sendô
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by sendô »

westham,eggyandchips wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 8:58 pm Picking an unfit Shaw is a crime. Even when fit he won't be match fit as he hasnt played since January.

Could and should have taken Chilwell and Leif Davis from Ipswich as LB's.

We look so disjointed it's unbelievable.
The decision to leave Chilwell out is baffling, as is his apparent freezing out of Tomori.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by ironilunga »

sendô wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 9:20 pm The decision to leave Chilwell out is baffling, as is his apparent freezing out of Tomori.
A suspicion of mine is that Southgate selects a team and squad based on personality first and attributes second.

I suspect mature and grateful players like Mainoo and Bowen are easier to manage than a Grealish. It suggests to me a deficiency in man management as you are not always selecting the correct group of players.

I think Venables would have loved working with Grealish and would have started him.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by Cambs Iron »

He's picked the squad mainly on form which i agree with but to bring shaw and no other natural left back is hurting us. I rate tripper highly but he's got no left foot and always cutting back making it easy to defend. Is shaw close to fitness? You'd think he'd of had 20 mins against Denmark if he was. If he's got 60 mins in him he starts Tuesday, you like to think he must be close as he's in the squad unless he's had a flare up in training.

Must make changes Tuesday, it's not working. I'd get palmer in odd he hasn't featured yet, issues behind the scenes? He's got that cocky nature which may help as the lads seem to be feeling the pressure.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by SullySpecial »

The latest excuse from Garth Waistcoat is that the team aren’t fit enough to press how he wants them to, blaming a lack of matches in recent weeks. WTF?

The guy is a grifter.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by jastons »

SullySpecial wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:02 am The latest excuse from Garth Waistcoat is that the team aren’t fit enough to press how he wants them to, blaming a lack of matches in recent weeks. WTF?

The guy is a grifter.
The BBC last night showed the England 'press' at the start of the game compared to the Denmark press at 90 minutes. Worlds apart.

You don't need to press at 100mph constantly. You can make 5 subs . The guy is talking *****.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by Plashet Grove Pete »

SullySpecial wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 9:02 am The latest excuse from Garth Waistcoat is that the team aren’t fit enough to press how he wants them to, blaming a lack of matches in recent weeks. WTF?

The guy is a grifter.
Exactly Sully.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/ar ... -southgate

The above article could be rewritten to read "I'm deliberately picking players who aren't fit enough to follow my instructions".

What the hell is wrong with the moron?
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by sutts07 »

Pickford has been fine so far.
Walker and Guehi have been quality.
Stones has been fine. Nothing major to shout about or hit him with.
Trippier is doing a job that a left back (Chilwell or Mitchell) should really be doing.
Rice was outstanding in the first match but woeful in the second. Seems to be uncomfortable playing alongside Trent.
Trent has' played well in that role in either match.
Bellingham was outstanding in the first game and also absent in the second.
Saka has shown flashes of class in both games, had a hand in both goals.
Foden was absent in the first match but showed signs of his best in the second.
Kane has looked isolated and out of it in both games, but has had two chances, took one and very nearly took both.

It really isn't all that bad. We just need a few tweeks. I think we have to try Rice holding on his own with Bellingham and Foden in front of him. That has to be the middle trio.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by scatts »

Look, the guy’s only paid £4.9 million a year, what do you expect - a good manager?

Has he lost his job already, or has he got one last game to save it?
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by AG67 »

To be honest, in terms of Southgate’s tactics I wonder if the real problem is he doesn’t really have any.
Shaw has been mentioned a few times in the thread, he hasn’t been fit to play so far, given his injury record and the fact he hasn’t played since February (?), he might well play and pull up injured again within minutes.
Last 30 minutes England were practically hanging on for the win against Serbia and then a point against Denmark.
Last edited by AG67 on Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by AG67 »

To be honest, in terms of Southgate’s tactics I wonder if the real problem is he doesn’t really have any.
Shaw has been mentioned a few times in the thread, he hasn’t been fit to play so far, given his injury record and the fact he hasn’t played since February (?), he might well play and pull up injured again within minutes.
Last 30 minutes England were practically hanging on for the win against Serbia and then a point against Denmark.
Oops…double post 🙄
Last edited by AG67 on Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by SullySpecial »

sutts07 wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:10 pm Pickford has been fine so far.
Walker and Guehi have been quality.
Stones has been fine. Nothing major to shout about or hit him with.
Trippier is doing a job that a left back (Chilwell or Mitchell) should really be doing.
Rice was outstanding in the first match but woeful in the second. Seems to be uncomfortable playing alongside Trent.
Trent has' played well in that role in either match.
Bellingham was outstanding in the first game and also absent in the second.
Saka has shown flashes of class in both games, had a hand in both goals.
Foden was absent in the first match but showed signs of his best in the second.
Kane has looked isolated and out of it in both games, but has had two chances, took one and very nearly took both.

It really isn't all that bad. We just need a few tweeks. I think we have to try Rice holding on his own with Bellingham and Foden in front of him. That has to be the middle trio.
How much of it do you think stems from being able to trust your teammates? TAA seems a bit of a liability to me, regardless of which position he plays. Perhaps that is putting additional pressure on Rice.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by Plashet Grove Pete »

I'd say Pickford has been in full blown psycho mode so far. And I still maintain his distribution is shocking. I doubt the defenders have as much faith in him as we are led to believe.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by sendô »

Look, lets be positive.

We’ve not played well in both games, yet we’ve got 4 points and top our group. We’ve also looked fairly solid defensively despite that apparently being our weak point.

Our pool of talent is excellent. It should only take a couple of tweaks for us to play better.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by hammers92 »

There’s a little bit of Southgate who has given in to the media and fans wanting something different. If I’m him I’d double down and just pick the team HE wants to play.

Similar comparisons between England and the Europa Conference League winning season. Brought in new players, changed the style and then we went back to basics and won a trophy.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by SullySpecial »

sendô wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 1:27 pm Look, lets be positive.

We’ve not played well in both games, yet we’ve got 4 points and top our group. We’ve also looked fairly solid defensively despite that apparently being our weak point.

Our pool of talent is excellent. It should only take a couple of tweaks for us to play better.
Do you trust him to make those tweaks effectively?
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by sendô »

Not in the slightest.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by Clucking Bell »

As I said in the England v Denmark thread, the single biggest problem is that we didn't bother to take a fit left back and expecting Shaw to hit the ground running after months out injured is wishful thinking at its finest.

That said, Pickford, Walker, Stones, Guehi, Rice, Bellingham, Foden, Saka and Kane would pretty much be first choice players for any other team in the tournament. Add in Gordon, Palmer and, with my West Ham specs on, Bowen and you've got a world class group of players. It shouldn't really matter that we've got to play Trippier or Gomez at left back when the rest of the players are that ****ing good!

However, if Southgate can't see that Alexander-Arnold isn't a holding midfielder (or a right back come to that) then he's a halfwit. The same is true if he can't see that all Bellingham, Kane and Foden have done thus far is get in each other's way. In real terms we're playing as an eight man team: no left back, a holding midfielder trying to do the work of two and three number tens. You can't make it up.

Lineker and Shearer have both said the same on their podcast, Kane needs to press and stay in the opposition half, Rice plays 6, Bellingham plays 8 and Foden plays 10. Gordon, as the only left sided midfielder needs to come in and, quite frankly, it probably doesn't matter whether Saka, Palmer or Bowen play on the right as they're all perfectly capable of doing a decent job. Finally everyone needs to play fifteen yards higher up the pitch.

If we're going to rely on raw talent rather than any kind of coaching, we may as well at least stick the players in their best positions.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by 61dicksey »

The guy is pissing in the wind, Luke Shaw inclusion is a massive f*** up, blaming fatigue is a lame excuse, experimenting with TAA is bull**** and should have sorted out in the many tedious friendliest we have had. Pure chancer
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by Aaron-aldinho »

Foden -------------------- Kane ----------------- Bowen

Rice -------Bellingham------Gallagher

Gordon --‐-------------------------------------------------------------Arnold

Guyhe -------- Stones --------- Walker

Pickford

Bowen gets my nod over Saka as hel do more defensive work to help Arnold out in this system and both him and Foden can act more like a inside forward than a winger.
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Re: Gareth Southgate / England tactics thread

Post by WCpete »

Question. If England and Slovenia draw 1-1 and Denmark beats Serbia 1-0, who wins the group? Same record, same pts, same goal difference, same amt of goals scored and head to head a draw. Is it discipline from there?

And, if the same old system and players being played out of position isn’t working, could England go 433? With Jude, Dec and either Mainoo or Wharton in midfield? Gordon, Kane and Palmer should start up front. And I’d keep the same back 4 except maybe swapping Trippier for Gomez.
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