A bum note by a great artist

[Rio]

Compared to Let Em In the Frog Chorus is a masterpiece.

I’m struggling to think of a single artist/band who hasn’t produced at least one duff moment. Clutch maybe.

Even the most lauded acts. Queen, great moments but a lot of dross throughout their career, the Stones by and large haven’t produced much quality since 1974.

The list is endless.

All subjective of course but ultimately true

[sendô]

I’m struggling to think of a single artist/band who hasn’t produced at least one duff moment.

[Rio]

Like I said. I’m still struggling

[ironilunga]

To be fair, there was that famous quote from John Lennon about Paul McCartney's "granny music" which includes When I'm 64, Ob La Di, Ob La Da or Maxwell's Silver Hammer. All of which are gash.

I’m personally of the opinion that the songs you mention work well in the context of the records they exist within. For example, a song like Maxwell’s Silver Hammer is almost a pallet cleanser between the more intense Come Togeather, Something and She’s So Heavy. They are not my favourite Beatles songs but I understand the balance they provide.

It sounds crazy but I think comparisons can be drawn between McCartney and Gary Barlow. Both were/are the leaders and driving forces for their respective bands. However, both had a propensity to be drawn to cheese-fests, particularly on solo work. Apparently they get on rather well.

[ironilunga]

Even the most lauded acts. Queen, great moments but a lot of dross throughout their career

In terms of albums I would only call Hot Space a complete fail and that still had Under Pressure on it!

But, yes plenty of average stuff on albums like Miracle.

[sendô]

I’m personally of the opinion that the songs you mention work well in the context of the records they exist within. For example, a song like Maxwell’s Silver Hammer is almost a pallet cleanser between the more intense Come Togeather, Something and She’s So Heavy. They are not my favourite Beatles songs but I understand the balance they provide.

Tbf I don't mind Maxwell's Silver Hammer that much, and yes it's very much an album filler.

The other two though, utter gash.

[Larrakeyah Hammer]

Compared to Let Em In the Frog Chorus is a masterpiece.

I’m struggling to think of a single artist/band who hasn’t produced at least one duff moment. Clutch maybe.

Even the most lauded acts. Queen, great moments but a lot of dross throughout their career, the Stones by and large haven’t produced much quality since 1974.

The list is endless.

All subjective of course but ultimately true

It’s like asking a footballer with a 20 year career
How many **** games did they have
Even the greatest can have an off day or days

[ironilunga]

It’s like asking a footballer with a 20 year career
How many **** games did they have
Even the greatest can have an off day or days

There is a difference between an average album filler/game of football and a complete turkey/gaff.

I think this thread was/is looking for the Luther Blisset moments of a bands career - Friday I’m in Love, Rude Box etc etc

[vietnammer]

At the obscurer end ('cept maybe to OFT) Frank Zappa could definitely be a 'select from' type of artist, but the one I couldn't stick for 10 minutes was Thing Fish where he'd gone totally up his own jacksy and was, to me, overtly racist, despite having Ike Willis doing the 'plantation n*****' accent. Horrible album.

[The Old Man of Storr]

Bob Dylan - Slow Train Coming .


Took me a while before buying another Dylan album .

[Eggs'n'nuts]

In terms of albums I would only call Hot Space a complete fail and that still had Under Pressure on it!

But, yes plenty of average stuff on albums like Miracle.

Came on to say the same thing.

Overall, a pretty dreadful album. I think this was the time Freddie want to go "Disco". I think that may have been the album they knew they should stick at what they were good at.

[WHU Independent]

Quite!
I
I do like The Police though. In a similar way that I like Roxy Music but think Bryan Ferry as a solo artist is fairly grim.

Heresy! Bryan Ferry has a load of cracking solo albums - I've got em all! Mamouna and Olympia are two crackers.

[Roby]

The track My World off GnR’s Use Your Illusion 2 album.

I bought this when it was a new release back in 91 when I was 13 - even at that age I knew that song was hilariously crap,

Great band, great album but that was bloody rubbish.

[southbrishammer]

The first album I ever bought was Dare by Human League, a bona fide classic. Retrospectively I found out their two previous albums were experimental genius, confirming their status as "a great artist" for this thread.

However the follow up to Dare, Hysteria was a big old donkey. There were a couple of decent songs (I actually liked The Lebanon!) but most of it was terrible, in particular the morose Louise and this weird cover of a mid-70s funk tune which was co-written by James Brown and which was at least an octave too high for Phil Oakey.



I listened to the album again recently and it still sounds like a big old donkey.

[ironilunga]

However the follow up to Dare, Hysteria was a big old donkey.

Creativity is how bands make it in first place. However, I think success can breed an over confidence in a band whereby they think that a fanbase will swallow almost anything - not so.

I imagine that after a couple of successful records bands have to decide whether they want ongoing commercial success or want to pursue vanity/passion projects. If it is the latter then I think they have to temper their creativity in order to sate fans that like their earlier work. I think Blur did this very well. Conversely I think Oasis on subsequent records weren’t creative enough and started getting the Quoasis tag. Its a balance - sticking to what is tried and tested can be just as damaging as being too out there. I think this is why the Beatles and Queen are so revered. They both evolved creatively whilst maintaining key elements of what made them successful in the first place.

[last.caress]

Celtic Frost - Cold Lake (1988) (Full Album)


I appreciate that, free of context, that racket will mean nothing to non-fans of black metal in general or of Swiss extreme metallers Celtic Frost in particular. But when they released their fourth album Cold Lake in 1988, you could hear a million black metal fans' jaws hit the floor at once across Europe in abject horror.

See, Celtic Frost were the leading name in black metal in the eighties. The final word in extreme music. The Big (Swiss) Cheese. They looked like this:



Kind of typically "black metal", right?

And then, out of the blue, they decided to attempt to become an LA hair band. On the back cover of Cold Lake, they suddenly looked like this:



And their songs' titles had changed from things like Circle of the Tyrants and Into the Crypts of Rays into things like Seduce Me Tonight and Dance Sleazy.

It was an upsetting time. They course-corrected eventually but tbh I'm still not over it. Many of my metal brethren are not over it either

[ironilunga]

Just had a quick google of them LC. Cold Lake certainly did cause a stir!! They’d have presumably known such a change of direction would alienate their loyal fanbase ?

It’s a shame bands don’t think of their legacy when chasing $ or a broader fanbase. I’m assuming that they would have been earning decent money as a lead exponent of the genre and received adoration from followers - why rock the boat?

Even if a band does manage the transition to a broader fanbase, don’t they worry about their legacy? For example, I wonder how Chicago wish to be remembered - is it the ballads that adorn Breeze FM or is it the exhilarating 25 or 6 to 4?

[Korea Hammer]

However the follow up to Dare, Hysteria was a big old donkey.

Sadly, I have to agree sbh, although I like Louise. I think if they'd put something out sooner, combining the post-Dare singles, which were brilliant, and the best of the US Fascination mini album and Hysteria, it wouldn't have been Dare, but it might have been a respectable follow-up.

(Keep Feeling) Fascination
Mirror Man
You Remind Me Of Gold
Louise
I'm Coming Back
Life On Your Own
I Love You Too Much
The Lebanon
Thirteen


On The Smiths, they don't have many missteps, but there are a few. Girlfriend In A Coma has a nice melody but I thought it was cringy self-parody at the time. And as for Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others and to some extent Frankly Mr Shankly, both are atrocities that ruin what should've been a perfect record. Death At One's Elbow is also a turkey.

[pablo jaye]

The first album I ever bought was Dare by Human League, a bona fide classic. Retrospectively I found out their two previous albums were experimental genius, confirming their status as "a great artist" for this thread.

However the follow up to Dare, Hysteria was a big old donkey. There were a couple of decent songs (I actually liked The Lebanon!) but most of it was terrible, in particular the morose Louise and this weird cover of a mid-70s funk tune which was co-written by James Brown and which was at least an octave too high for Phil Oakey.



I listened to the album again recently and it still sounds like a big old donkey.

I never did care much for Hysteria … I think they’d been pushed down the ‘if you wanna make money, you’ve got to be more commercial’ road by then. You are completely right about this track - Phil sounds as if he is already struggling on the first few bars that he sings.

[pablo jaye]

On The Smiths, they don't have many missteps, but there are a few. Girlfriend In A Coma has a nice melody but I thought it was cringy self-parody at the time. And as for Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others and to some extent Frankly Mr Shankly, both are atrocities that ruin what should've been a perfect record. Death At One's Elbow is also a turkey.

As a fully signed up Smith fanboy, this got me thinking about if I had to rank all of their songs, which ones would be fighting relegation … whilst it was an evident ‘up yours’ to the pop merry-go-round of the time, Panic is a bit twee, and I agree that to some extent, Frankly Mr Shankly is bettered by much of their output. Golden Lights aswell, is a bit of a filler for me.