England & Other International Games - October 2024

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Captain Corelli
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by Captain Corelli »

Carsley shouldn't be sacked for trying something new.

He SHOULD be sacked for dropping Bowen, though.
1895Hammer
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by 1895Hammer »

Was Carsley trying to replicate the Dutch “ total football” idea? The 2 cb’s and Rice apart we looked shapeless, too many trying to do the same thing, all floating about trying to be creative, and there was neither a striker or an identifiable “false 9”. Agree yesterday was ideal for experimentation, but there are key roles in any team and nobody seemed to know who was supposed to play them. All that attacking talent and hardly a shot on target, bit like a side selected in the playground.
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dodger
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by dodger »

Captain Corelli wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 7:00 am Carsley shouldn't be sacked for trying something new.

He SHOULD be sacked for dropping Bowen, though.
It's not about 'sacking' him - he doesn't have the job yet!

Thought it was madness from the start that he was even being considered. Will be massively underwhelmed if he is the eventual appointment.
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by Gazmundo »

The issue for me was a weak spine of the team. Great goal line clearance from Colwell but apart from that him and Stones looked physically weak in central defence. Pavlidis should never have been allowed to take so many touches inside the box for his first goal. Then you only have Rice providing protecting ahead of them rather than a double pivot. Going with one CDM only works against weak opposition at international level. Greece are no mugs. Stones is not captain material IMO. Rice would have been a better choice.

If you're going to experiment then this is the game to do it in but it didn't work. Frontfoot football is great when it works and against weak opposition but it won't be long before the manager is labelled tactically naive (as Ange is finding out...mate). What I find interesting is how ordinary supposedly world beating players like Saka and Palmer look against teams like Greece, Denmark and Slovakia. Not saying they're not good players but the Premier League is so overhyped.
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DusseldorfHammer
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by DusseldorfHammer »

dodger wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 8:09 am It's not about 'sacking' him - he doesn't have the job yet!

Thought it was madness from the start that he was even being considered. Will be massively underwhelmed if he is the eventual appointment.
Why "madness"? He has worked with a large number of players from this group before. Who was available outside of maybe Poch? Not much to gain this season from getting the England job. Might be different in six months. Seems sensible from the FA to takre their time to make a deep analysis of the player pool and what type of candidates it requires to increase the chance of winning the WC title in 2026.
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by Gaz »

In this country, I feel we under value the non spectacular quiet and tidy midfielder who occupies spaces and plays it simple, keeping the ball rotating, supporting play. That was the role Angel Gomez had and I thought we looked better for it.

In no universe should Gordon, Saka, Palmer, Bellingham, and Foden be ever picked in the same team again.

I'd have a front three of Grealish, Kane/Watkins, and Bowen supported by Rice and Gomez.
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ironilunga
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by ironilunga »

1895Hammer wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 7:51 am Was Carsley trying to replicate the Dutch “ total football” idea?
Nope, like the majority of England managers before him he was trying to shoehorn in the best England players available to him rather than the best players available for every given position. Tis why we will always be also rans until we employ a manager like Pep who is not too frightened to drop a big name.
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by Nobles_combover »

England fans remind me of Arsenal fans - deluded.

Everyone in the Euros wanted all our best attacking talent on the pitch and wanted a less pragmatic approach.

Southgate leaves, the new guy does exactly what the fans were deriding Southgate for not having the “bottle” to do and one bad result in a friendly and everyone is saying he’s clueless :crylol:
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by pablo jaye »

On reflection, now that I am free of the scrum and hustle and bustle of London, the Greeks definitely deserved to win the game, they had more drive and came at the England defence forcing us onto the back foot and into making errors. They knew that our CBS were prone if faced with a bit more aggression, whilst Pickford does tend to flap at times (admittedly I’m not a great fan of his).

In terms of the positives, I thought Gordon had a reasonable game and Watkins should have been on from the start. Palmer started OK but faded but the likes of Foden and Saka just didn’t get into gear. Too much tippy-tally stuff by England, hoping the Greeks would make and error, rather than being a bit more direct and aggressive, like they were … and won.

As for the atmosphere (aside from the excellent Greek fans) … the LS is more electric, so that’s saying something!!!
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by OFT »

Gaz wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 8:37 am
In no universe should Gordon, Saka, Palmer, Bellingham, and Foden be ever picked in the same team again.
In my universe Gordon would never be picked again...for any team, the snidey cheating twat him.
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vietnammer
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by vietnammer »

Nobles_combover wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 8:55 am England fans remind me of Arsenal fans - deluded.

Everyone in the Euros wanted all our best attacking talent on the pitch and wanted a less pragmatic approach.

Southgate leaves, the new guy does exactly what the fans were deriding Southgate for not having the “bottle” to do and one bad result in a friendly and everyone is saying he’s clueless :crylol:
The 'human condition' of any football fan though ain't it!
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MD_HM
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by MD_HM »

ironilunga wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 8:43 am Nope, like the majority of England managers before him he was trying to shoehorn in the best England players available to him rather than the best players available for every given position. Tis why we will always be also rans until we employ a manager like Pep who is not too frightened to drop a big name.
This 100%

Foden, Palmer and Bellingham are all CAMs this is the problem.

We don't have an obvious left winger but then have media darling Saka as a right winger.

So you need a team with CAMs supporting a striker and drop Saka or pick one of the three and play wingers (Saka and one of Gordon or Grealish)

But like Southgate before him they opt for the players not the team
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hammers92
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by hammers92 »

Some of the hate Saka gets on here is bizarre. One of the best players in the league imo.
El brooko79
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by El brooko79 »

:
Nobles_combover wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 8:55 am England fans remind me of Arsenal fans - deluded.

Everyone in the Euros wanted all our best attacking talent on the pitch and wanted a less pragmatic approach.

Southgate leaves, the new guy does exactly what the fans were deriding Southgate for not having the “bottle” to do and one bad result in a friendly and everyone is saying he’s clueless :crylol:
I thought most England fans wanted to see the most balanced team possible rather than trying to fit in all big names.

Imo that would have included an in form CF.

Instead he has tried to shoehorn in Foden, Palmer and Bellingham centrally at the expense of a CF.

It's an experiment, it was wrong (imo) and that's fine.
But imo it is the same issue as Southgate, names rather than balance and fit.
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by jastons »

hammers92 wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:07 am Some of the hate Saka gets on here is bizarre. One of the best players in the league imo.
You said this
hammers92 wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 6:46 am Also Phil Foden - the country needs to come to the acceptance he is not capable of playing at this level.
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Metal Hammer
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by Metal Hammer »

vietnammer wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 5:32 am "Maybe this is what happens when you play all the fun guys" (David Hytner, Guardian)
Doesn't leave mushroom for error?
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hammers92
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by hammers92 »

jastons wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:11 am You said this
Yep, stand by it 100%. Sake has delivered in an England shirt, Foden never has.
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by DusseldorfHammer »

Also pretty ridiculous, that a new England manager/coach isn't allowed to try something new or make mistakes in games that won't matter anything in a year from now.
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vietnammer
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by vietnammer »

Metal Hammer wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:12 am Doesn't leave mushroom for error?
:wink:
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ironilunga
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Re: England Games - October 2024

Post by ironilunga »

DusseldorfHammer wrote: Fri Oct 11, 2024 9:16 am Also pretty ridiculous, that a new England manager/coach isn't allowed to try something new or make mistakes in games that won't matter anything in a year from now.
I think Carsley has made himself look a bit daft.

What message does it give to Solanke and Watkins that when Kane is out the manager elects not to play a striker? I mean, Im assuming Kane would have played if fit, so it’s not about a change in system…..rookie error.
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