Whufc06 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:06 am
Regardless, the point I'm making is that multiple people say he's had the whole preseason to work with the players, he hasn't.
He had a whole pre-season himself, some of the players were away in international duty and t extended leave. Not ideal, but exactly the same as every other manager in the league.
The point is that he started work in the best possible condition he could - having known he was getting the job months before starting work. No one could have had all the players - so there’s not much point in musing what could or couldn’t have been.
NWhammer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 10:58 pm
That’s your argument.
Both matter. My argument is that barring the spell during covid the football played by David Moyes’s sides was garbage. In the last 2 seasons with david Moyes as manager we got good results for 1/4 of it and what we are seeing now is no worse than those performances.
No I’m not enjoying it, yes it’s frustrating, but as I’ve said many times now I’ve seen this elsewhere when a manager has taken over and tried to completely change the clubs identify. It takes time.
He may turn out to be a terrible appointment but I don’t agree with that judgement being passed after 11 games. I’ll continue to argue the case for Julen because I actually quite like him. I like that he’s experimental,
Would be cooler, if you would talk about the on the pitch stuff from this season.
- What has really impressed you positively?
- Where do you see his teams standout strong point?
- Which area of our team under him would you point out as "that's the one, that's where we gonna win (tight) matches from"?
NWhammer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 10:58 pm
I like that nobody seems safe,
- Would you agree, that this could be his own early downfall, that he might lose a part of the squad early, by subbing them on and off in games, playing players out of their best positions on the pitch and his idea still not clicking?
NWhammer wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2024 10:58 pm
and I like that he’s animated on the touchline.
EastVillageHammer wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:11 am
He had a whole pre-season himself, some of the players were away in international duty and t extended leave. Not ideal, but exactly the same as every other manager in the league.
The point is that he started work in the best possible condition he could - having known he was getting the job months before starting work. No one could have had all the players - so there’s not much point in musing what could or couldn’t have been.
I'm not really a fan of his work so far and if given the choice I'd pull the trigger and cut our losses. I'm just saying that the narrative that he had the whole of preseason to implement his ideas and style into the team isn't strictly true as I'd say 7 of his probable first choice XI weren't available for 80% of it. Nothing more nothing less.
Whufc06 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:06 am
Regardless, the point I'm making is that multiple people say he's had the whole preseason to work with the players, he hasn't.
Benefit for a new manager/head coach coming in with a full pre-season:
- much easier for the coaches and players getting to know each other.
- perfect to set up new routines.
And the big one:
- perfect to introduce and set up new elements in/of training the playing style of the coming season will be centred around. He might have started pre-season only with half of his squad, but the important parts of training must have been in place, when the last group of internationals came back from their summer break.
- We brought in an experienced manager, who had dealt with issues coming from international summer call-ups in the past.
All of which are impacted by not having your best players available. Christ it ain't that difficult to understand and I'm not giving him a free pass for being so **** so far just pointing out that one of the sticks being used to beat him isn't as it seems.
It seems past obvious he has to go, the lad just doesn't have what it takes.....given the chance im sure he'd play us exactly the same as Moyesball.
Come December and get the new one in, personally id go for Sarri to ensure they're good enough to last more than a whole season, but at this point anyone other than Lampard will do to change it up, oh and Moyes no no no....or big sam no no no.
Sell Kudus in January, 80 Million to Newcastle or Arsenal, i think the Geordies would suit him better.
With the money buy a STRIKER and a box to box MIDFIELDER....both with power and pace and age on their side.
....then we can all relax with a mid table finish and a wee FA Cup run, if we can avoid a top 4 team away for a few rounds at least for a change.
Whufc06 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:31 am
All of which are impacted by not having your best players available. Christ it ain't that difficult to understand and I'm not giving him a free pass for being so **** so far just pointing out that one of the sticks being used to beat him isn't as it seems.
The best players are internationals, also because they are capable to perform in multiple different systems.
Having a full pre-season is an absolute positive for a new manager/head coach.
*looks a bit stupid to let a key figure of your whole pre-season, one who was setting the tone from early on, walk before the start of the new campaign in JWP.
Kilman was pretty much the only new starter here before the start of the season.
You can try implementing a style until you are blue in the face if the players aren't up to it. I suspect the summer of working on it was a big reason we made late moves for the midfielders that are supposedly more suited to it. The 180 degree change people wanted takes more than 1 window and (if teams don't want your surplus to requirements players) a lot more than 130m.
Imo (and this isn't a dig at them) you can't play possession based, pass and move, play out from the back with coufal, souchek, Antonio, areola, Alvarez etc.
The manager is just the latest square peg for a round hole signing. If the belief is he is the right guy then get the players that can do the job. If he isn't get a manager who can produce a more simplistic style and stop buying players like paqueta. Or 3rd option swap both the manager and get him players he can work with.
Bubbles Fortuna wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:45 am
Sell our best players to Newcastle?
Bloody hell.
I know it sounds crazy but...
80 mil + for a player that we can't play in his natural position because our captain plays there, is good business wherever he goes.
We need a striker & a box to box powerhouse CM far more than we need a Kudus imo.
We'll have to sell to buy so unfortunately it makes sense.
I don't think Newcastle will have that kind of money to spend in Jan though.
he has been watching us play since january so surely he noticed that we had no pace in midfield ? so what happens we bring in two slower players in rodriguez and soler ??? why ? should have kept downes and JWP !
he needs to go as we still have no pattern of play and we are 11 PL and 2 cup games in. 13 games . we have 27 PL games left .
time for change is now whilst there is still some time to have a good season. change in january and we are half way through the season.
I reckon sully is giving him 3 more games; newcastle arsenal and leicester. lose all 3 and he must go.
SOS time. save our season and get rid of lopetegui. this isnt working. every player has gone backwards !.
next 3 games all on TV so our possible humiliation will be seen nationwide !
Out of interest, have any of our other ITKs heard anything re Lop's position?
Not that I'm doubting Pezza - I can entirely believe that Sullivan wouldn't sack Lop until February at the earliest - but presumably our ITKs all have different sources so it'd be interesting to know whether there's a consensus on that.
The click-bait sites are constantly linking us to new coaches, but there's an obvious reason for that. The more respectable journos, notably Ornstein and Thomas, seem in agreement that Lop is under heavy scrutiny but basically safe for now.
I can see Lop being given the season, purely to protect both Sullivan's pocket and ego.
I may be mistaken, but I feel that the general consensus on here when Lopetegui was appointed was that it would take him time to create his own team, and most people were ok with that.
I seem to recall many people being pragmatic and saying that this season would be a write off.
That all seems like the distant past. Some people seem to be demanding they get EXACTLY what they want, and they want it NOW!
Monkeybubbles wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:05 am
I may be mistaken, but I feel that the general consensus on here when Lopetegui was appointed was that it would take him time to create his own team, and most people were ok with that.
I seem to recall many people being pragmatic and saying that this season would be a write off.
Can only speak for myself, but I would never deem a whole PL season as a write-off; nor does I think a head coach on a two-year deal would look at things that way. I also wouldn't be less critical of Lopeegui's tenure so far, as long as we would see some positive signs from his work with the players.
I really don't see us having any structure that is really working. I don't see a system or patterns the team can refer to as being either the "safe option" or the "That's at least working, no matter what".
I don't see a single player that clearly has made a step up so far this season or looks better now playing under the new head coach. And I already see some of our new signings sulking.
Much easier to ignore a few bad spells, as long as the team is progressing overall; which so far isn't the case at all.
Last edited by DusseldorfHammer on Thu Nov 14, 2024 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
He's trying to get a side playing a system that we don't have the players for (or they are taking their time to get used to it)
Feels like Pellegrini all over again
Trying to get the team to be like a Ferrari with the engine of a Ford
But that's why many fans wanted a new manager because they didn't like the way the previous one played. I know who I'd rather have managing the team at the moment!
DublinDave wrote: ↑Thu Nov 14, 2024 8:53 am
I know it sounds crazy but...
80 mil + for a player that we can't play in his natural position because our captain plays there, is good business wherever he goes.
We need a striker & a box to box powerhouse CM far more than we need a Kudus imo.
We'll have to sell to buy so unfortunately it makes sense.
I don't think Newcastle will have that kind of money to spend in Jan though.
I would rather we sold Bowen than Kudus. There, I said it.
Get Kudus working under a world class manager, and he’ll be a world class player. Bowen has already hit his peak.
