The Sir Keir Starmer Labour Government July 2024-

[Turns to Stone]

Prejudices? Blimey, that's a loaded word.

I suppose. I should have said 'opinions'. But when they are already formed and negative - then they become prejudices. I think many of us probably have them. It's why some people don't trust Europeans or Americans or whatever.

And how do you know this? Where do you get your information about the individual views of 350m people?

I don't. I was referring to the zeitgeist. I think it helps to speak generally sometimes when discussing things. When you get caught up in the minutaie of things and trying to score points, it becomes really, really boring.

Which views?

Whichever ones are pre-conceived. For example, that reducing waiting times on the NHS cannot be a positive thing.

How does my relative apathy towards Trump make you feel?

horny.


Look. All I'm saying is that I think there are some really good posters on these pages - of which you are one. But I think that you do yourself a disservice when you can't see anything positive in certain places. And I sometimes think that you don't allow yourself to see it because of where it comes from.

You said pre-election - that no matter what Labour did/does, you will never believe them anyway. So in a sense, it doesn't matter what they do 'good or bad'. You're not going to have it.

In my opinion, it's a positive thing that NHS waiting times are down. And I don't want to live in a world where intelligent people can't see that or refuse to see that.

Anyway, we've probably taken enough of everybody's time on this thread today.

Have a good afternoon.

[bubbles1966]

In my opinion, it's a positive thing that NHS waiting times are down. And I don't want to live in a world where intelligent people can't see that or refuse to see that.

And no one has - re-read the quote.

But you've asked for nuance and objectivity, and been given it.

[the pink palermo]

We did, but admittedly it's still a work in progress

Yes, and i supported that and also agree with the Labour partys current position with regards Europe.

In my opinion, it's a positive thing that NHS waiting times are down.

Mine too. I used the NHS last week, having a scan at a local hospital.

The process began last August and involved contact with 14 different people spread across 3 locations, four appointments in person, a telephone consultation , 3 letters received, a dozen text messages. Total face to face clinical time, less than one hour.

At the end of it, they've reduced my medication, slightly, and said i'm good to go for a way into the future.

All of the clinical care was excellent. Delivered when they said, where they said and was utterly professional.

The hard bit was getting into the system to start with : inadequate resource at the start of the process followed by under utilised equipment and resources afterwards.

What really stood out was the community diagnostic centre i visited in Southend : in, registered, treated, ejected in less than 10 minutes.

The downside was the bureaucracy: letters taking weeks to arrive, gaps between appointments too long.

But, the key is the continuing rollout of the community diagnostic centres. Theres now over 165 of them, and they are a winning idea.

The bottom line is the process of reengineering the NHS will take decades, but it doesnt mean we shouldnt start.

The flawed, muddled thinking is the " just close it down, get rid of it, its inefficient " mantra. Everybody knows its inefficient, nobody, if building a new NHS would start from here, but you cant simply get rid of it if there is nothing to replace it with.

The idea that an insurance based system will suddenly appear is for the birds.

The strategy of clearing the backlog before wholesale reform is the right one. The wholesale reform though, needs to come, and a much clearer demarcation between health and social care is required.

[smuts]

My eldest is undergoing some tests, etc. Following an initial hiccup the NHS have been superb so far.

For the last 10 years our GP has been really good but as usual it's the A and E side which is the real issue in Havering. Queens is a badly laid out building which is having to deal with about twice as many emergency patients it was designed for.

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

I'll agree, that there's not a load of stuff to be positive about when it comes to our current government, but if you can't see waiting lists going down, cancer checks/treatments going up and ambulance response times improving as a good thing, then I'm not sure you'll ever be pleased.

It is indeed a good thing. However the figures out today are actually a drop of in the rate of improvement over the rest of last year. Things were getting better faster before August.

Around 1m extra a month to that point, then 2m in the 3 months being heralded.

[delbert]

I can only repeat, not one more cent should be spent with American defence contractors.

In terms of trade , America has demonstrated why they are an unreliable partner for agriculture- just imagine if they cut food supplies off in the same way they are threatening to cut off military aid to Ukraine.

The UK Government needs to raise tax surcharges on data centres and tax data by the Kb, as the one to get in some revenue from the digital industry - Amazon, Google, Meta etc. All of that should be invested in Green energy.

Its clear energy security is a priority and our dependence upon fosil fuels needs erradicating.

In good news, the Labour Government has met a key election pledge of 2m additional appointments and waiting lists have started to fall.

In the short term that'd be expensive bordering on impossible, we are tied into too many shared systems, long term would be doable but the danger of putting ideology above common sense could be both expensive and dangerous.

In that case, instead of building houses or bunging solar and wind farms up on farmland it's probably best if tried to produce some food from it.

How would taxing like that compare to other countries?

F-r-a-c-k-i-n-g would help give us energy security earlier.

They met the pledge with a lot of help from the last government, but good news regardless.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... year-early

[delbert]

I personally think there's a great opportunity here for us to invest heavily in our defence/arms sector, developing weapons domestically that can be exported to allies. It'll increase our capabilities, and boost the economy long term, whilst lessening our dependence on the US and boosting our standing and prestige.

There's not many countries that could do it.

The money will certainly need to be found, and we will need to be stringent with where we spend elsewhere.

To do that we'd need a steel industry, the effects of Brexit gave it a blow, Millibands net zero stupidity could deliver the coup de grace. Any increase in spending will need severe policing, the armed forces have a terrible track record when it comes to spunking away tax payers money.

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8636e7xq5eo

Supreme court tells chancellor she can't intervene to stop the banks screwing working people - again.

[simon hammer]

At the end of it, they've reduced my medication, slightly, and said i'm good to go for a way into the future.

Glad to hear that pinky

[the pink palermo]

In the short term that'd be expensive bordering on impossible, we are tied into too many shared systems, long term would be doable but the danger of putting ideology above common sense could be both expensive and dangerous.

im not putting ideology above anything.

America has made it clear they wont support Ukraine any longer, what makes you think they would support us ? The penny isnt dropping with people : America has walked away from us. They are running a $2.4 tn budget defecit , a lot of which is on the military. Europe , meanwhile spends nothing on its military but offers tax cuts to its middle classes year after year.

In that case, instead of building houses or bunging solar and wind farms up on farmland it's probably best if tried to produce some food from it.

You are aware, are you not Delbs that half of the land designated as agricultural land in the UK hasnt been farmed for 5 years or longer.

How would taxing like that compare to other countries?

No idea, and i dont really care : what are they going to do ? Switch off 100% of their income because our Government says they can only keep 80% of it ?

F-r-a-c-k-i-n-g would help give us energy security earlier.

is that renewable? So , not secure for very long.

They met the pledge with a lot of help from the last government, but good news regardless.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... year-early

That was my point Delbs - i was highlighting them as an example where the contnuity of a good policy was a good thing ( Bubbles previous post referenced that as a desirable thing).

[bubbles1966]

America has made it clear they wont support Ukraine any longer, what makes you think they would support us ?

Much greater financial interests along with deeper cultural and civilisational ties make it considerably more probable. Trump isn't walking away from Israel.

They are running a $2.4 tn budget defecit ,

TBF, they have nearly half of all the aircraft carriers on the planet and a stock of 5,500 nuclear weapons. They're probably quite well set.

You are aware, are you not Delbs that half of the land designated as agricultural land in the UK hasnt been farmed for 5 years or longer.

Nice to know we have spare capacity - we'll need it if there's a war and need to Dig for Britain!

[the pink palermo]

TBF, they have nearly half of all the aircraft carriers on the planet and a stock of 5,500 nuclear weapons. They're probably quite well set.

Actually one of their problems is the need to replace their entire nuclear weapon capabilities. They have a $1.7tn programme underway to rebuild all the minutemen silos, 8 nuclear subs and air launched nukes.

A major stumbling block is the lack of American born engineering skills to design and produce it all. Believe it or not defence contractors are targeting high potential kids in junior school to try and get them studying appropriate subjects.

[bubbles1966]

Can well imagine it.

I don't suppose they're any different from us in terms of educating children in the sometimes worthless , whilst leaving the most necessary and valuable skills under-subscribed.

The analytics for university education show limited numbers coming out with engineering degrees in spite of being clearly the most valuable of skills in terms not only of employability, but appropriate level employability.

We instead turn out hordes of humanities and arts grads who end up as debt laden, miserable staff at the Slug and Lettuce.

[sendô]

UK wages in both public and private sectors outpacing inflation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gwgpjgl5zo

I'm sure everyone will be delighted at that.

[mumbles87]

UK wages in both public and private sectors outpacing inflation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gwgpjgl5zo

I'm sure everyone will be delighted at that.

I'm sure the usual suspects will be along in due course to outline how this is terrible thing for everyone and we are all doomed because of it.

[bubbles1966]

UK wages in both public and private sectors outpacing inflation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gwgpjgl5zo

I'm sure everyone will be delighted at that.

There was a long conversation yesterday about nuance, so let's have some.

Wage growth at current levels = higher interest rates for longer - so, those with oodles of cash can enjoy a nice steady flow of further income whilst those with debts can expect higher repayments for longer - so people with mortgages and tenants in BTLs.

Higher wages - nice if you keep your job but increased probability of job losses. The same bulletin shows job vacancies are down again and almost one million people aged 18-34 are now unemployed (this doesn't include the economically inactive). Unemployment among 16-24 year olds is up 72,000 since the summer.

So, some people win, some people lose. All depends where you or yours are personally positioned.

[sendô]

Oh look, the fun sponge.

[bubbles1966]

Oh look, the fun sponge.

The truth is a ****er, ain't it?

[Plashet Grove Pete]

I'm sure the usual suspects will be along in due course to outline how this is terrible thing for everyone and we are all doomed because of it.

This is terrible. And the train drivers are the ones to blame.

I've missed you mumbles.

[sendô]

The truth is a ****er, ain't it?

That some people aren't happy unless they're miserable?

Would you prefer inflation to be higher than wages?

The same?

I remember you complaining endlessly about interest rates being too low, and that they needed to be closer to 5%. Now you're complaining they're too high?