✍️ Welcome to West Ham Utd Graham Potter

[YorksHammer]

Not really a clean slate if he is only getting 4-5 games next season and that’s the problem right, too many made up their minds before a ball was kicked and are now just waiting to be “proved” right. Same with the bloke before and the one before that.

It is all so binary.

Perhaps it's more a case of a 'used but wiped down slate that still shows a few marks'? I don't think Potter is currently in a position where this run of 18 games will be forgotten by the West Ham fans come next season, but I think he will be granted more leeway than a manager likely to end the season on a run of 18 games at less - possible much less - than a point per game would get.

I'm not doing this as an ex-manager comparison, merely to look at another mid-season manager change, but compare with Moyes at Everton, who will have had 19 games by the end of the season at an Everton with, in my opinion, a weaker squad overall than West Ham have, and he'll have got 1.1 points per games even if Everton lose to all of Chelsea, Ipswich, Fulham, Newcastle, and Southampton. If they win the two games they should win in that set (Ipswich, Southampton) then he'll have 27 points from 19 games, 1.4 points per game, and they'll already have a strong base to kick on from even if he wants/has to revamp the team in the summer.

I'm honestly not sure whether Potter has been a good appointment to date, he's done very poorly with what he does currently have in hand. But there are caveats around it which are being used to mask that poor performance, including the fact that it's not 'his' team, he hasn't had a pre-season, and so on. If he doesn't hit the ground running with 'his' team and a pre-season, those reasons kind of immediately go away and he's in trouble, certainly by at the most game 10 of next season.

[Colne Dynamo]

I think we'll have a lovely team next season and all this will be forgotten.

[Ozza]

Everton dont have a "weaker" side than us, thats just silly talk.

Moyes took over one of the best defensive sides in the league at the time, Moyes being Moyes has got them going forward more than Dyche.

The players were also together as a unit and playing for the badge, they certainly weren't the mess that we were before Potter arrived

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Perhaps it's more a case of a 'used but wiped down slate that still shows a few marks'? I don't think Potter is currently in a position where this run of 18 games will be forgotten by the West Ham fans come next season, but I think he will be granted more leeway than a manager likely to end the season on a run of 18 games at less - possible much less - than a point per game would get.

I'm not doing this as an ex-manager comparison, merely to look at another mid-season manager change, but compare with Moyes at Everton, who will have had 19 games by the end of the season at an Everton with, in my opinion, a weaker squad overall than West Ham have, and he'll have got 1.1 points per games even if Everton lose to all of Chelsea, Ipswich, Fulham, Newcastle, and Southampton. If they win the two games they should win in that set (Ipswich, Southampton) then he'll have 27 points from 19 games, 1.4 points per game, and they'll already have a strong base to kick on from even if he wants/has to revamp the team in the summer.

I'm honestly not sure whether Potter has been a good appointment to date, he's done very poorly with what he does currently have in hand. But there are caveats around it which are being used to mask that poor performance, including the fact that it's not 'his' team, he hasn't had a pre-season, and so on. If he doesn't hit the ground running with 'his' team and a pre-season, those reasons kind of immediately go away and he's in trouble, certainly by at the most game 10 of next season.

Also, compare vs the new Wolves manager who is also working with a squad that is not his
It is not that common for a new manager to take over mid-season and do worse (points wise) than the incumbent, unless you are Ruud Van Nistelrooj!

of course there are exceptions to that

[Ozza]

I mean it's a bizarre way of looking at it though isn't it.... each club has its different issues and why they let go of the manager, you are comparing apples with oranges.

Ive said it before, JL didn't get sacked just on his results, it was the backroom shenanigans and a load of other stuff.

We are a lop sided squad, players coming out of contract and players that dont want to be here.

We certainly look more cohesive under Potter than we were under JL but thats hardly a good yard stick, we certainly aren't as strong a squad as either Wolves or Everton in my view.

So it really depends on what clusterf*** the manager picks up really.

[Ironing Board]

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[Turns to Stone]

Potter would have killed to have a player like Bowen at Brighton.

If he can solidify the defence and the midfield in the way he did at Brighton, and have a front 3 of Bowen/Paqueta/Fulkrug (or a new striker), then we could be in for a really interesting year.

[The hayfield]

The poor sods on a hiding to nothing. Dwarfs already instructing others to undermine him . It's an absolute barrage of articles attacking GP on the club stooges site . Whetstone is to GSB what harry Harris is to Tottenham Hotspur.

[MB]

Perhaps it's more a case of a 'used but wiped down slate that still shows a few marks'? I don't think Potter is currently in a position where this run of 18 games will be forgotten by the West Ham fans come next season, but I think he will be granted more leeway than a manager likely to end the season on a run of 18 games at less - possible much less - than a point per game would get.

I'm honestly not sure whether Potter has been a good appointment to date, he's done very poorly with what he does currently have in hand. But there are caveats around it which are being used to mask that poor performance, including the fact that it's not 'his' team, he hasn't had a pre-season, and so on. If he doesn't hit the ground running with 'his' team and a pre-season, those reasons kind of immediately go away and he's in trouble, certainly by at the most game 10 of next season.

*some* West Ham fans. Completely clean slate for me and I wasn't even that keen on the appointment.

As for the second bit above, did you expect him to do well? You surely know enough to know the problems he inherited and how he likes to play. Didn't take a genius to predict we'd be here or here abouts.

Points per game? You are a drunk on a lamppost mate...

[Turns to Stone]

He's not that doing dissimilarly to Moyesey in his first couple of spells tbh:-

----------------------P---W---D---L---GF---GA---PTS
Moyes (1st Spell) 13--4----4---5---13---19-----16
Moyes (2nd Spell)13--3----2---8---13---17-----11
Potter--------------13--3----4---6---13---14-----13 -----and just to add a little bit of balance
Lopetegui---------13--4-----3--6---18----26-----15

[Turns to Stone]

Of course, but the scenarios are very different. West Ham have spent a fortune and are miles off where the wage bill suggests they should be. Potter didn’t walk into a relegation fight.

That's not really the point I'm making. What I'm saying is that Potter is tracking relatively similarly to the last few new managers that have come into the club, so when we say he has had a 'poor start', it's actually a pretty standard start by West Ham standards.

For what it's worth, given the situation around Antonio, Paqueta, Steidten and a woefully put-together squad, I think Potter's scenario is no better than anyone else's.

He also doesn't have Declan Rice.

[Sloop John B]

The British manager took charge of West Ham over mid-season from a Spanish manager who had spent a considerable fortune in the summer on players many felt were unsuitable for this league. The new manager could only strengthen the squad in January with two players, one was brought in at minimal cost for his experience and mentality, the other other was a loan, whilst drifting in the bottom half of the table West Ham never really looked like being relegated under either manager.

[Ozza]

That's not really the point I'm making. What I'm saying is that Potter is tracking relatively similarly to the last few new managers that have come into the club, so when we say he has had a 'poor start', it's actually a pretty standard start by West Ham standards.

For what it's worth, given the situation around Antonio, Paqueta, Steidten and a woefully put-together squad, I think Potter's scenario is no better than anyone else's.

He also doesn't have Declan Rice.

Absolutely

And comparing him to Moyes at Everton or the bloke at Wolves is all a nonsense as well

[Ozza]

Sheesh that last page and half has been a tough read!

Yeah, apologies for my part in that

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Absolutely

And comparing him to Moyes at Everton or the bloke at Wolves is all a nonsense as well

COmparing him to the Wolves bloke, or any manager that took over in mid season, is not nonsense if the narrative is that Potter cannot be expected to do well as he has taken over mid-season and is working with players that are not his

Plenty of managers take over in those circumstances and do much better than the incumbent. One example is the Wolves manager. and tbf Lopetagui, when he also took over at Wolves a couple of seasons ago!

[Aztec Hammer]

Yeah - that makes you Scottish! Jus Sanguinis.

You're totally right mate. Being born and growing up in East London and then going to school in Barkingside, how did I not realise I am not English. I'm obviously actually Irish and Pakistani. Thanks for reminding me that I had it wrong all these years!

[Turns to Stone]

COmparing him to the Wolves bloke, or any manager that took over in mid season, is not nonsense if the narrative is that Potter cannot be expected to do well as he has taken over mid-season and is working with players that are not his

Ii would imagine that football clubs are not that different to other companies. Some have managed to create cultures where new staff can come in and provide instant impact, others are slow-moving dinosaurs which make it hard for anyone to come and make quick change.

I’ve worked at both, and had success at both, but it’s bloody hard work and takes a long time at the former.

I know nothing about Wolves or Everton, but I can imagine that Sullivan and Brady are not the most progressive of leaders. We are not a fluid, flexible and mobile organisation. We do not empower or inspire. Everyone at West Ham is miserable - the fans, the players, the coaches.

That is the culture that the leadership team has created - and no manager seems to be able to enact positive change quickly.

[DusseldorfHammer]

COmparing him to the Wolves bloke, or any manager that took over in mid season, is not nonsense if the narrative is that Potter cannot be expected to do well as he has taken over mid-season and is working with players that are not his

Plenty of managers take over in those circumstances and do much better than the incumbent. One example is the Wolves manager. and tbf Lopetagui, when he also took over at Wolves a couple of seasons ago!

In contrast to Lopetegui, who got the opportunity in the winter of 2023 to add Matheus Cunha (on loan), Craig Dawson, Pablo Sarabia, Mario Lemina and Joao Gomes to his Wolves team and Vitor Pereira, who brought in three new first-teamers for 45m, Graham Potter wasn't blessed with the opportunity to make any permanent signing.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Tbh I suspect potter would have had a quicker impact at wolves than he has here. Bit like Moyes at Everton.

This squad has more issues than those 2 imo.

But all relative to what the previous one did.
The geezer at Wolves has done a lot better than O'Neil with those players and circumstances
Potter has not done a better job than Loppy with our players and circumstances

Point is new managers can do better than incumbents even with squad full of players that are not 'theirs' - if Loppy was as bad as made out and players hated playing for him surely improving on him should have been quite easy

[Crouchend_Hammer]

In contrast to Lopetegui, who got the opportunity in the winter of 2023 to add Matheus Cunha (on loan), Craig Dawson, Pablo Sarabia, Mario Lemina and Joao Gomes to his Wolves team and Vitor Pereira, who brought in three new first-teamers for 45m, Graham Potter wasn't blessed with the opportunity to make any permanent signing.

Agbadou I will give you has been a good signing for Wolves. Whether he is Pereria's choice is another matter entirely. The other two hardly played and very unlikely they cost £30m between them

Anyway, that is just one example of a manager who has come in and improved vs the incumbent. Glasner another one last season

Of course, some have been a lot worse as well