Russian invasion of Ukraine

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The Old Man of Storr
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 12:26 pm Was there a hoohah amongst the English? I'd imagine 99.9% couldn't have cared less tbh.


Trying to impose Welsh words on the English is like trying to get blood out of a stone , it isn't going to happen , your tongues aren't up to the job [ ask your partners ] - if Narva residents are 98% Russian speakers Estonia are pissing in the wind , same as the Welsh .

Again , apologies if this was too difficult to follow ...maybe it's my Welsh brain ?

Like the English , those 98% of Narva's residents and 45% of Estonia's capital city will ...as you put it not care less .
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 9:52 am 98% of Narva residents are Russian speakers .

Bit like 98% of UK residents are English speakers .

Imagine if Scotland or Wales were to phase out English by 2030 .

Bit drastic....and not very democratic .

I've seen it up here when the Gaelic Mafia took over our Primary School -

They tried preventing the school kids from speaking English to each other in the Playground , no English to be spoken to the English only speaking dinner ladies [ my Mrs was one of them ] - Local Landlord donating laptops to the Gaelic Classes , nothing whatsoever to the English class . Gaelic speaking pupils going on School funded Foreign Holidays , English pupils going to Mallaig for a day trip ....all true .

I know first hand how this type of thing is implemented and invariably fails .
Calling this out. If Scotland and Wales were independent countries in their own right then they can take up whatever they f'ing want.

I was in the Baltic's when the Russian monument was moved away from the centre of Tallinn and placed in the war memorial cemetery.

Was done with utmost respect and grace. Only for the Russians to start using this as an excuse to cause trouble.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Bend it like Repka »

I would urge anyone who wants to understand why countries who used to be in the Soviet bloc would not want to go back, the difficult process they had of freeing themselves, and why they are so mistrustful now, to watch the Cold War on Netflix.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

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Nord Stream sabotage hearings begin in London


The operator Nord Stream company argues that it is entitled to an indemnity of 580 million euros from the insurer Lloyd’s of London -

'' LONDON, April 17. /TASS/. Hearings into the sabotage of the Nord Stream and Nord Stream 2 pipelines began on Thursday at London's High Court, a TASS correspondent learned at the judicial body.

Switzerland-based Nord Stream company that operated the pipelines argues that it is entitled to an indemnity of 580 million euros. The process, presided by Judge Clare Moulder, is expected to take approximately five weeks.

The court is not planning to determine who exactly blew up the pipelines, and the hearings will focus on whether insurance payments should be made. The insurer, Lloyd’s of London, insists that the pipelines were blown up either upon instructions from a national government (Russia, the United States, or Ukrane), or sub-state actors from Ukraine as a result of a military conflict between Moscow and Kiev, and, therefore, no insurance payments should be made.

Nord Stream argues that the pipelines were outside the conflict zone, were not a military site, and the sabotage was not aimed at achieving military goals of any party to the conflict.

The explosions on September 26, 2022, caused unprecedented damage to three lines of the Nord Stream and the yet-to-be-commissioned Nord Stream 2. The Russian Prosecutor General’s Office has opened a case, citing acts of international terrorism. '' - TASS April 17th 2026
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by DusseldorfHammer »

To still run with
The Old Man of Storr wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 1:29 pm TASS
the former semi-reliable, now complete propaganda tool by the Russian Regime, also odd or just a thing, to which tune the bloke is dancing.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

sendô wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2026 4:20 pm Bloody right. I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I say Türkiye.

Can't buy a decent Chicken Kiev these days -

It's now Tesco Garlic & Herb or Wild Garlic Chicken Kyiv -


You knew where you were in 2021 .
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

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The Old Man of Storr wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 4:10 pm
You knew where you were in 2021 .
Jesus, I can't remember where I was last week, never mind five years ago.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by delbert »

Bend it like Repka wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2026 10:29 am I would urge anyone who wants to understand why countries who used to be in the Soviet bloc would not want to go back, the difficult process they had of freeing themselves, and why they are so mistrustful now, to watch the Cold War on Netflix.
Not many tried to cross the Iron Curtain West to East.....
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

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Disasi did
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

An interesting read -


The Crimean Referendums of 1991 and 1994

Author:
Christopher Laws


'' Yesterday was an eventful day in the uneventful life of this site. The piece I published last Thursday, ‘Crimea: A Literary Perspective‘, was linked to in an article by Gary Brecher of PandoDaily. Owing to this, my site more than doubled its previous best view count for a single day.

Gary Brecher writes a regular column for PandoDaily, entitled ‘War Nerd’. The excellent piece he published on Monday covers the situation in Crimea, and takes the full title ‘War Nerd: Everything you know about Crimea is wrong(-er)‘. It elucidates the response to the situation of US journalists and politicians, and identifies the vital role that Russian oil will continue to play amid talk of sanctions and other consequences. It builds a picture of international relations following the end of the Cold War. More, it provides a suggestive history of Ukraine across the twentieth century, and gives a concise reading list towards a fuller understanding of the region.

Brecher noted in his piece – for the sake of comparison with the referendum which took place on Sunday – a Crimean referendum of 20 January 1991. The referendum asked Crimeans whether they wanted to restore autonomy to the region, and just over 93% of voters approved. I disagree with Brecher’s analysis of that referendum; and responded in the comments below his piece. I am quoting my response in full here, because it considers more deeply some of the recent political history of Crimea touched on in my previous two articles. In short, it looks at how Crimea reemerged as an Autonomous Republic during the latter days of the Soviet Union; and at how events in the years immediately following Ukrainian independence continue to influence developments in Crimea today. My response to Brecher’s piece:

In an insightful, informative, engaging and entertaining article, the interpretation of the Crimean referendum of January 1991 is one of the few points on which I disagree with you, Gary. I think there’s just about room for the interpretation – and it is very difficult to capture the full and convoluted complexity of the various shifts in Crimea’s modern political history, certainly without writing at vast length – but I wouldn’t depict the January 1991 referendum as Crimeans voting ‘to restore their ties with Russia’.

Crimea was governed as an Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic from the end of the Russian Civil War until 1945, when it lost its autonomous status, and was made an Oblast, essentially a region of Soviet Russia. In 1954, the Crimean Oblast was transferred to the authority of Soviet Ukraine. Whether this was simply a gift, or whether it served a richer political purpose is debatable; but it wasn’t of profound significance at the time, because power in the Soviet Union was so centralised in Moscow.

The referendum of January 1991 asked Crimeans whether they wanted Crimea to regain autonomy. The vote has to be viewed in its immediate context. The Soviet Union was breaking down owing to separatist movements in numerous Soviet Republics. Through 1990, Gorbachev proposed to reform the Soviet Union, hoping that he could keep the political structure together by significantly decentralising power. Meanwhile Soviet Ukraine held parliamentary elections, and its parliament declared in July 1990 the sovereignty of the state. This was an assertion of Ukraine’s right to govern itself; but Ukraine still remained a Soviet Republic, and it was one of the Republics which began negotiating towards the end of the year Gorbachev’s new Union Treaty.

Crimea asking for a referendum on autonomy, and voting decisively in January 1991 for the ‘restoration of the Crimean ASSR as a subject of the USSR and as a party to the Union Treaty’, can be read as a response to the Ukrainian parliament’s declaration of state sovereignty. On the other hand, as an Autonomous Republic after January it was still part of Soviet Ukraine. Autonomous Republics in the Soviet Union were parts of Soviet Republics, granted much more autonomy than that possessed by mere regions. So the referendum didn’t mark Crimea severing ties with Ukraine and rejoining Russia; but it did imply a willingness to remain part of the Soviet Union.

Gorbachev’s new Union Treaty was never implemented: Ukraine couldn’t agree its terms, and by late 1991, the Soviet Union was dissolving. On 1 December, Ukraine held a referendum and Ukrainians voted for independence. This essentially marked the end of the Soviet Union. 54% of Crimean voters opted for Ukrainian independence, with the turnout in Crimea placed at 60%. Thus Ukraine became independent, and Crimea remained part of the newly independent Ukraine, retaining its autonomous status. Throughout 1992, the Crimean parliament made gestures towards full Crimean independence, but really sought to secure only greater autonomy from Kiev.

Perhaps more controversially – and as the refworld.org link details – in May 1992 the Crimean parliament established a Crimean constitution, and in September-October 1993 it established the post of President of Crimea. But in early 1994, after a polarising election campaign, Crimeans elected as their President a strongly pro-Russian candidate, Yuriy Meshkov. A power struggle between the Ukrainian parliament and the Crimean parliament commenced. Another Crimean referendum in March 1994 asked three questions: ‘1.3 million voted, 78.4% of whom supported greater autonomy from Ukraine, 82.8% supported allowing dual Russian-Ukrainian citizenship, and 77.9% favored giving Crimean presidential decrees the force of law’. Yet after more political turbulence – with the Crimean parliament voting to oust Meshkov in September – in March 1995 the Ukrainian parliament unilaterally abolished the post of President of Crimea, and scrapped the Crimean constitution. The Crimean parliament was forced to define a new constitution, which the Ukrainian parliament finally ratified in 1998.

So when the interim Ukrainian government today talks about the Crimean parliament’s lack of legislative power – when it comes to appointing a Prime Minister, and when it comes to calling a referendum – there is an argument that this power was taken from Crimeans by Kiev in an underhand, undemocratic, if not entirely illegitimate manner back in 1995. '' - Culturedarm.com

————————
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Bend it like Repka »

Alternatively.............

https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/research ... annexation

Few in Crimea identified as pro-Russian nationalists. In fact, only those I interviewed within pro-Russian parties and movements identified as such. Instead, many identified as ethnically Russian, but with few cultural or political ties to Russia. Many others identified as between Ukraine and Russia: as Crimean. Meanwhile, many younger people did not identify, ethnically, even as Russian speakers, rather they identified as Ukrainian citizens.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

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https://www.chathamhouse.org/2021/05/my ... ys-russian

Myth 12: ‘Crimea was always Russian’


Orysia Lutsevych OBE
Deputy Director, Russia and Eurasia Programme; Head of the Ukraine Forum

Crimea has been in Russian hands for only a fraction of its history. If unchallenged, the Kremlin’s fiction that Crimea willingly and legitimately ‘rejoined’ Russia risks further undermining Ukraine’s territorial integrity and encouraging other expansionist powers.

What is the myth?

This myth holds that Crimea was always Russian, and that its seizure by Russia in March 2014 simply rectified a historical injustice. As this myth also has it, reaccession into Russia was also a genuine act of self-determination on the part of the people of Crimea – who, after all, are majority ethnic Russian and Russian speakers – through a ‘referendum’.

From the outset, the Russian leadership portrayed the annexation of Crimea as the long-awaited and rightful ‘return’ of the peninsula to its proper home. According to the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, ‘… in the minds of people, Crimea has always been and still is an inseparable part of Russia’.148 Although the referendum to legitimize Russia’s military intervention was in reality a token exercise conducted after the fact and under duress, Putin insisted: ‘We held a referendum in strict compliance with the UN charter and international legislation. For us, the case is closed.’149

Who advocates or subscribes to it?

The narrative that Russia simply took back what was already its own captured the minds of many internationally – most prominently US President Donald Trump, who told G7 leaders in 2018 that ‘Crimea is Russian because everyone who lives there speaks Russian’.150 It was consistent with his previous statement that ‘the people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were’.151

In Europe, too, a cohort of mostly right-wing populist parties and politicians with strong links to the Kremlin have pushed the ‘Crimea is Russian’ narrative. In Germany, Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) concurs with Putin that the move into Crimea was in response to ‘the expression of genuine public will’. AfD representatives, including Bundestag members, visit Crimea regularly despite protests from the Ukrainian authorities.152 In France Marine Le Pen, the leader of the National Rally (formerly National Front) party, also recited from the Russian script when she said that ‘Crimea was always Russian’.153 Similar rhetoric came from Italy’s then deputy prime minister, Matteo Salvini, who denied that the 2014 referendum was a sham and added that ‘there are some historically Russian zones with Russian culture and traditions which legitimately belong to the Russian Federation’.154

Foreign policy analysts from the realist and ‘grand bargain’ schools suggest that the Russian violation of international law in Crimea should be forgiven as a goodwill gesture from the West in view of Crimea’s special history and mostly Russian ethnic composition.

In addition, foreign policy analysts from the realist and ‘grand bargain’ schools suggest that the Russian violation of international law in Crimea should be forgiven as a goodwill gesture from the West in view of Crimea’s special history and mostly Russian ethnic composition.155 Some writers openly suggest such a bargain given ‘well-known sympathies on the peninsula itself’.156

Why is it wrong?

Less than 6 per cent of Crimea’s written history (from the 9th century BC to date) belongs to the Russian chapter. Before 2014, Crimea was under Russian control for a total of only 168 years.157 In fact, Russia is just one of several powers that have aimed to dominate the peninsula. At the dawn of its history, Crimea was a Greek land. It later developed at the intersection of different civilizations and empires. Until the mid-15th century, the peninsula was a space of unique cohabitation between the Khanate of Crimea, Genoese colonies on the coast and the Principality of Theodor (Byzantium) in the southwest. Thereafter, the khanate expanded and became, for over 300 years, a dominant power as a protectorate under the Ottoman Empire. Crimea was an Orient in miniature, with a Turkic-Muslim culture.

Russia invaded Crimea in 1783, as part of a westward expansion seeking control of the Mediterranean and the Middle East. The ambition of Catherine the Great was to establish a new Byzantium in Constantinople, with her grandson Constantine as its emperor. Defeat in the Crimean War of 1853–56 temporarily halted Russia’s continuing territorial aspirations in the region by leading to a ban on military arsenals in the Black Sea, although within 14 years Russia unilaterally abrogated this obligation and continued its military build-up.

Imperial Russia and later the Soviet Union were mistrustful of the indigenous population of Crimean Tatars. The Russian policy was one of forced displacements, colonization and Russification to enshrine dominance. The peninsula’s demographics underwent change following the forced outward migration of Crimean Tatars after the annexation of 1783 and the Crimean War. A further major deportation in 1944 marked a continuation of the long-standing imperial practice of expelling native populations and taking over their lands. According to the last official Ukrainian census of 2001, 60 per cent of the population of Crimea consisted of ethnic Russians, while 24 per cent were Ukrainians and 10 per cent Crimean Tatars, the three most numerous groups.

Crimea was part of Soviet Ukraine for longer than it was part of Soviet Russia. Contrary to yet another popular myth – that the peninsula was a gift to Ukraine in 1954 to mark its ‘union with Russia of 1654’ – Crimea’s transfer to Ukraine in that year aimed to improve the peninsula’s economy, then in poor shape because of difficulties over water supply and a scarcity of farmers.

Crimea’s final chapter before its 2014 annexation by Russia was as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea (ARC). A part of independent Ukraine and the only self-governing region within unitary Ukraine, the ARC had its own constitution, prime minister and parliament. Although the Crimean constitution protected the special status of the Russian language, the ARC supported Ukraine’s independence (during the referendum of 1991 on Ukraine’s independence from the Soviet Union, 54 per cent of Crimea’s residents had voted for an independent Ukraine, including 57 per cent in Sevastopol).

Since 1991, no major separatist movement has existed in Crimea. Periods of tensions between Kyiv and Simferopol were mostly related to curtailing the activity of criminal groups and to competition for economic control. Throughout that period, Russia sought to be involved in these dynamics, funding pro-Russian groups and politicians. One of the main drivers of Russia’s policy was that it needed influence to protect its Sevastopol-based Black Sea Fleet, and in that it was successful.158

What happened in February–March 2014 was a full-spectrum military operation executed on land and at sea and supplemented by sustained and targeted anti-Ukraine information operations.159 Finally, when a referendum was held – in effect at gunpoint – on 16 March 2014 to legitimize Russia’s takeover of Crimea, the Kremlin hijacked the principle of self-determination. Public opinion polling prior to Russia’s aggressive disinformation campaign spoke clearly in favour of Crimea remaining part of Ukraine.160 Yet ahead of the vote, those who supported remaining within Ukraine could not campaign freely. The ballot also excluded the option for Crimea to remain part of Ukraine as an autonomous republic, i.e. according to the constitution in force. Furthermore, the Kremlin substantially inflated voter turnout. While it said that 82 per cent of voters had cast their ballots, a member of Russia’s presidential Civil Society and Human Rights Council reported that turnout was likely to have totalled 30–50 per cent.161 Election fraud such as multiple voting was also reported.

The Venice Commission of the Council of Europe concluded that the referendum was illegal, as it violated the constitutions of both Ukraine and Crimea.162 The process also failed to meet European democratic standards or provide for meaningful negotiations between the stakeholders. The Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) sent in no observers as it also found the referendum illegal.163 A UN General Assembly resolution underscored the invalidity of the 16 March vote.164

What is its impact on policy?

The myth of a Russian Crimea has tempted some Western policymakers to advocate recognizing it as such, especially if this were to be part of a bigger bargain. To recognize Crimea as part of Russia was the solution reportedly advised to President Trump by Henry Kissinger.165 In a similar vein, Trump’s then National Security Advisor, Michael Flynn, was pitched a ‘peace plan’ that would lease Crimea to Russia for a term of 50 or 100 years.166

Such moves, if realized, would further undermine the already fragile international rules-based order. The argument that Crimea rightfully belongs to Russia overlooks the grave violation of international law committed by Russia, while opening a proverbial Pandora’s box in terms of the revision of borders and possible conflicts in other parts of the world.167 It also endorses a Russian neo-imperial outlook and the logic of ‘spheres of influence’, both of which wrongfully imply that Russia has the right to act as it sees fit in relation to smaller and weaker neighbours, especially where there is a significant ethnic Russian or Russian-speaking population.168

To adhere to such views is to lose vigilance over the considerable security risk that the current Russian regime poses for Europe. It is to sustain the delusion that Putin’s Russia could be an ally in countering rising Chinese power on the continent, or a constructive partner in counterterrorism. It also effectively excuses Russia’s key role in five other frozen conflicts in the post-Soviet region. Susceptibility to realpolitik-based arguments likely contributed to the country’s reinstatement as a member of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) in June 2019, even though Russia had failed to reverse any of the violations of international law that led to the suspension of its membership in the first place. This illustration of the ability of Russia to act with impunity in turn undermines the mission and credibility of PACE, and the notion of multilateralism as a whole.

Proliferation of the myth also threatens the current sanctions regime, which was introduced after the annexation of Crimea in March 2014 and is renewed annually by the EU Council. Italy’s former prime minister, Giuseppe Conte, had been openly working towards the objective of lifting sanctions169 (the current prime minister, Mario Draghi, lowers the risk coming out of Italy, as he is more likely to align with the pro-sanctions core of the EU’s leadership). Meanwhile, in Germany the forthcoming change of leadership that will follow the September 2021 federal election could make that country’s government more receptive to removing sanctions against Russia. In Hungary, Prime Minister Viktor Orbán has openly declared the EU’s sanctions on Russia to be unreasonable.

Finally, accepting Russia’s Crimean land grab means undermining the prospects for global nuclear non-proliferation. In 1994 Ukraine renounced its nuclear status. In exchange, the Budapest Memorandum provided assurances from the nuclear powers, notably Russia, the US and the UK (France and China were co-signatories), in relation to Ukraine’s territorial integrity. These assurances were violated 20 years later. The failure of the international community to uphold the commitments it undertakes discredits the process.

What would good policy look like?

It is essential that the EU and the US maintain their commitment to Ukraine’s sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity, and clearly communicate this to Russia. The illegality of the annexation must not be doubted. The global community of nations should maintain the policy of non-recognition of Crimea as part of the Russian Federation, similar to the non-recognition of Soviet control over the Baltic states after the Second World War. It took the Baltic states 50 years to reclaim their statehoods. A similarly long wait is very much conceivable in the case of Crimea.

It is unlikely that in the medium term a continuous policy of non-recognition will compel Russia to stop the militarization of Crimea and return the peninsula to its rightful status as part of sovereign Ukraine.170 In the long term, however, such a policy will help the West collectively to uphold the foundational principles of the post-1945 world order and international law.171

Policymakers should refer to Russia as an occupying power in Crimea, a fact already recognized by the UN General Assembly,172 PACE,173 the International Criminal Court and other international organizations and states.174

Crimea-related sanctions against Russia should be maintained and properly enforced for as long as Russia continues with its occupation, and stepped up if the situation in the Black Sea deteriorates further. It was disappointing not to see a substantial expansion of European sanctions in response to the Russian capture of three Ukrainian naval vessels at the entrance to the Sea of Azov in 2018, or in response to the persistent disruption of commercial navigation and environmental damage caused by construction of the Kerch Strait Bridge. There has to be much stronger enforcement of the current sanctions regime, violated by many Russian, international and even Ukrainian companies.

Ukraine’s security should be reinforced by improving its naval capabilities, logistics, cyber defence and secure communications. The drastic militarization of Crimea by Russia, and the latter’s unlawful restrictions on navigation in the Sea of Azov, increase the vulnerability both of the Black Sea and the Mediterranean to Russian security threats. Russia is investing in access-denial capabilities to create a zone of exclusion designed to restrain NATO’s presence. Russia also uses the peninsula as a base for military operations in Syria. The number of military personnel in Crimea has increased almost threefold since 2013, and there are signs that Soviet-era nuclear infrastructure is being restored. NATO should consider a reinforced presence in the Black Sea and utilize its new Enhanced Opportunities Programme for Ukraine as a vehicle to increase Black Sea security. Ukraine could also be involved in operations under the EU’s PESCO (Permanent Structured Cooperation) scheme.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by DusseldorfHammer »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2026 12:13 pm
Author:
Christopher Laws
Who's that? What are his credentials?
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by Colne Dynamo »

Christopher Laws is a writer, designer, editor, and translator. The founder and editor of the online magazines Culturedarm and The Shimmering Ostrich, he holds a PhD in English literature in the works of James Joyce.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by DusseldorfHammer »

Colne Dynamo wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2026 3:49 pm Christopher Laws is a writer, designer, editor, and translator. The founder and editor of the online magazines Culturedarm and The Shimmering Ostrich, he holds a PhD in English literature in the works of James Joyce.
Yeah! :crossed:
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

DusseldorfHammer wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2026 4:02 pm Yeah! :crossed:
Anyone can call themselves a ' Journalist ' these days, eh , Duss ? :wink:
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

Former Chancellor Schmidt defends Putin's Ukraine policy
Helmut Schmidt finds Russia's actions in Crimea "perfectly understandable," but considers sanctions "nonsense." While acknowledging the dangerous situation in Ukraine, the former chancellor places the blame squarely on the West.

March 26, 2014, 11:25 a.m. - Der Spiegel archives .


Hamburg – Former German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt finds Russian President Vladimir Putin's actions in Crimea "perfectly understandable." Schmidt told the weekly newspaper "Die Zeit," of which he is also the publisher.

Schmidt strongly criticized the West's handling of the Crimean crisis. He described the sanctions against Russia imposed by the European Union and the USA as "nonsense." According to Schmidt, further economic sanctions would miss their mark. They, too, would primarily have symbolic significance, "but they would affect the West just as much as the Russians."

Schmidt's comments now lend support to those in the German debate who advocate for understanding Moscow . Former Chancellor and fellow party member Gerhard Schröder had previously expressed a similar view .

Schmidt also criticized the West's decision to no longer cooperate with Russia within the G8 framework. "It would be ideal to sit down together now. In any case, it would be more conducive to peace than threatening sanctions." Schmidt added: "The G8 is actually not as important as the G20. The Russians haven't been forced out of the G20 yet."

The West could "stimulate Russia's appetite"

Schmidt called the situation in Ukraine "dangerous because the West is getting terribly upset." This, he said, "naturally leads to corresponding agitation in Russian public opinion and politics." Regarding Chancellor Angela Merkel's policies, the 95-year-old said: "Here, praise is due for the German Chancellor's caution."

When asked whether he could imagine a Russian intervention in eastern Ukraine, the former Chancellor replied: "I refrain from speculation. I consider it conceivable, but I think it's a mistake for the West to act as if that is inevitably the next step. That could potentially whet the appetite for such action on the Russian side."

At the beginning of March, Schröder had primarily criticized the EU's course towards Ukraine and assigned Europe partial responsibility for the Crimean crisis. ''
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

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Ukrainian Marines blamed Kiev Government for Crimea Surrender -


Acknowledging defeat, Ukraine pulls troops from Crimea

By Aleksandar Vasovic and Gabriela Baczynska

March 24, 2014 3:18 PM GMT


By Aleksandar Vasovic and Gabriela Baczynska

FEODOSIA/SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (Reuters) - Ukrainian troops and their families began evacuating from Crimea on Monday, as Kiev effectively acknowledged defeat by Russian forces who stormed one of the last of their remaining bases on the peninsula.
Thousands of Ukrainian troops have been besieged on bases in Crimea, offering no armed resistance but refusing to surrender, since President Vladimir Putin declared Moscow's right to intervene at the start of the month.

On Monday, bowing to the reality on the ground, Kiev's leadership announced Ukrainian forces were being pulled out to spare them and their families further Russian threats. A few hours later many were already on their way out.
Scores of troops from a marine base seized earlier in the morning gathered, some with their families, at an assembly point about 1000 metres (yards) away. Most were in combat uniform, wearing trademark black berets with Ukrainian cockades depicting a winged anchor and sword. Some were in civilian clothes.
"Yesterday we had an agreement: we would lower our flag and the Russians would raise theirs. And this morning the Russians attacked, firing live ammunition. We had no weapons. We did not fire a round," said one marine, Ruslan, who was with his wife Katya and 9-month-old son.

Troops hugged each other in farewell. Some chanted "Hurra! Hurra!" in defiance. One marine in full uniform who declined to identify himself wept and blamed the government in Kiev for the chaotic end to the standoff.
"This is all Kiev's fault. We are defeated. We suffered and ministers in Kiev did not bother to issue us a proper order," he said. "They smeared our flag and honour."
As two military trucks, a bus and 10 civilian cars pulled out of the gates, servicemen shouted through the open windows of the bus: "Long live the marines."
Moscow formally annexed Crimea last week and its forces have been seizing the last Ukrainian bases in recent days.
"The National Defence and Security Council has instructed the Defence Ministry to carry out a re-deployment of military units in Crimea and evacuate their families," Ukraine's acting president Oleksander Turchinov told parliament in Kiev.
The move, he said, had been made following threats by Russian forces on the lives and health of Ukrainian service staff and their families.
Earlier on Monday Russian forces, using stun grenades and machine guns and backed by two helicopters, swept into the marine base in the port of Feodosia, overrunning one of Ukraine's last symbols of resistance. Ukrainian officers were taken away for questioning, Ukrainian officials said.
Ukrainian flags were taken down inside the base after the assault, which used similar tactics to those used to take Ukraine's Belbek air base in Crimea on Saturday.
Russia's seizure of Crimea after the ousting of Ukraine's pro-Russian president by mass protests in Kiev has triggered the worst East-West crisis since the Cold War.
Moscow formally annexed Crimea on March 21, five days after newly-installed pro-Russian leaders held a referendum which yielded an overwhelming vote to join Russia. The West and Kiev say the referendum was illegal and the result a sham.
Russian forces had seized part of the Feodosia base, used by the 1st Separate Marine Battalion, Ukraine's top military unit, earlier this month, while the Ukrainians had kept control of the armoury, the barracks and other facilities.
Turchinov, putting a brave face on Ukraine's inability to defend its bases, said Ukrainian troops' refusal to surrender in Crimea had bought valuable time for the armed forces to re-group nationally to protect the rest of Ukraine.
"Despite the huge losses, Ukrainian forces in Crimea have fulfilled their duty. They provided the ability and time for the Ukrainian armed forces to be able to ensure defensive preparations and for partial mobilisation to be organised."
In Kiev, a senior military official said the evacuation would affect about 15,000 service personnel, together with their families.

BASE TAKE-OVER

During the assault on the base in Feodosia, a Ukrainian army officer, First Lieutenant Anatoly Mozgovoy, told Reuters by phone from inside the compound that the Russians had fired shots while the Ukrainian soldiers were unarmed. Asked if the base had been taken over, he said: "Yes".
"The interior of the compound is full of Russian troops," Vladislav Seleznyov, a Ukrainian military spokesman in Crimea, said earlier. The Ukrainian Defence Ministry said Russians had driven away with Ukrainian marines in trucks from the base.
"Currently, between 60 and 80 Ukrainian marines are detained and in practice held captive by the Russian military on the territory of the Feodosia sea port. They are subject to constant psychological pressure," the ministry said,
Two days after the earlier Belbek storming, the commander of the airbase, Colonel Yuliy Mamchur, had yet to be freed. His aides believe he is being held in the Russian Black Sea Fleet's home town of Sevastopol.
Ukrainian forces have also abandoned a naval base after attacks by pro-Russian protesters, and had to surrender two flagship vessels to Russian forces over recent days as Moscow solidified its grip on Crimea. ''

Writing by Richard Balmforth; Editing by Peter Graff
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EvilC
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by EvilC »

So we’ve arrived at the posting decade old articles by dead people from a man that believed in a lot of ideas around the West’s relationship with Russia that are now clearly wrong.
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Re: Russian invasion of Ukraine

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Sun Apr 19, 2026 7:19 am
Former German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt finds Russian President Vladimir Putin's actions in Crimea "perfectly understandable."

But of course he said that - appeasers are going to appease. Our Nev was the same back in the day.

"The West could "stimulate Russia's appetite"

It was all our fault. But of course.

Schmidt called the situation in Ukraine "dangerous because the West is getting terribly upset."

Yep that was the dangerous bit. Not the Russians invading a part of Ukraine but the fact that some of us in the West got "terribly upset". My bad. We should try to keep sanguine and chipper when European countries invade other European country's territories. Maybe free access for all of us to Prozac or Es would help.

This, he said, "naturally leads to corresponding agitation in Russian public opinion and politics."

Ah, it was all our fault again v2. Again, but of course.

When asked whether he could imagine a Russian intervention in eastern Ukraine, the former Chancellor replied: "I refrain from speculation. I consider it conceivable, but I think it's a mistake for the West to act as if that is inevitably the next step".

So the gullible appeaser got that wrong. Colour me shocked. But who would he say was to blame if they did invade? The Russians surely?

"That could potentially whet the appetite for such action on the Russian side."

:P Ah, I see, I should have got the hang of this by now - it was all our fault yet again v3. But of course it was. Silly, silly me.

At the beginning of March, Schröder had primarily criticized the EU's course towards Ukraine ....

Ooh, who is Schroder going to blame for this one? Let me hazard a guess ....

...."and assigned Europe partial responsibility for the Crimean crisis'.'

What a ****ing surprise. Anyway, mercifully the naive politicians you quote are no longer sitting on the pot and their replacements aren't so stupid as to trust Russia again hence the re-armamment. Good on them.
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