Brexit referendum result aftermath

[smuts]

Nope. Haven't changed my mind. I had no faith in the likes of Cameron making it work who at least had half a brain cell let alone the likes of Johnson, Mogg etc who's only waking thought is how to make themselves and their chums richer.

I can't see one benefit to date...Still hopefully it might work out for my kids in the next 40 years.

[OFT]

Nope. Haven't changed my mind. I had no faith in the likes of Cameron making it work who at least had al brain cell let alone the likes of Johnson, Mogg etc who's only waking thought is how to make themselves and their chums richer.

I can't see one benefit to date...Still hopefully it might work out for my kids in the next 40 years.

Perhaps a pro brexit Question Time panel could explain....

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

The vote was six years ago tomorrow.

Has anyone changed their mind either way or feel that their choice has been vindicated?

The transition period ended in 2021 so in effect we've had just over a year of leaving the EU fully. It'd be hard to make a judgement on what's happened in just over a year.

[Junco Partner]

The vote was six years ago tomorrow.

Has anyone changed their mind either way or feel that their choice has been vindicated?

Our ruling class have certainly made their minds up:
In 2016, only 47 British MPs & Lords held an Irish passport
By 2022 there are now 321 of them with an Irish passport.

My 2016 view that it would be a fiasco as it was a poor idea sold on lies by the dodgiest of dodgy salesmen has been entirely vindicated. It’s actually worked out much worse than I feared.

[Hammer1966]

Our ruling class have certainly made their minds up:
In 2016, only 47 British MPs & Lords held an Irish passport
By 2022 there are now 321 of them with an Irish passport.

My 2016 view that it would be a fiasco as it was a poor idea sold on lies by the dodgiest of dodgy salesmen has been entirely vindicated. It’s actually worked out much worse than I feared.

Seriously? That's unbelievable.

[bonzosbeard]

Our ruling class have certainly made their minds up:
In 2016, only 47 British MPs & Lords held an Irish passport
By 2022 there are now 321 of them with an Irish passport.

My 2016 view that it would be a fiasco as it was a poor idea sold on lies by the dodgiest of dodgy salesmen has been entirely vindicated. It’s actually worked out much worse than I feared.

Need more info on this. Why and how?

[EvilC]

Need more info on this. Why and how?

The "why" is pretty obvious, isn't it?

[Junco Partner]

Need more info on this. Why and how?

Seriously? That's unbelievable.

Seems it’s some 2+2=5 thinking on Twitter is the source . There was an Independent article yesterday claiming the number was high, but no mention of 321, some digging on Dublin records who monitor this and some assumptions on number of NI MPs & Lords + number of those with known Irish parents/grandparents got some to the 321 number. An actual FOI response claimed this wasn’t monitored by Parliament.

Probably should be though, eh

[-DL-]

I didn't vote, and didn't particularly care at the time which way the vote went - all I wanted was the vote to be upheld when leave won- so it may have come over in the past that I'm a Brexiteer - but I'm not - I'm neither that nor remainer. I just got the arse when the result was trying to be derailed.

It's certainly not something I am prepared to judge as I sit here typing this, due to the unique set of circumstances around Covid, and the war in Ukraine. It's been a perfect storm, with a little bit of Brexit added to the mix. Any issues caused by Brexit, have without a shadow of a doubt, been exacerbated by the events just mentioned.

Let the world settle, get some normality back to world economies and world trade before either side break out the bunting and celebrate it being a success or failure.

Have we been disadvantaged by not being in the EU during all of this? I'd hazard a guess that the effects have been negligible, when you consider how other EU economies are facing exactly the same issues over costs of living, energy prices, huge rises in the cost of manufacturing, and ten fold increases in the costs of shipping from continent to continent.

It most certainly could have been handled better by this government, but by the same token, judging it as a failure when the world economy is taking a beating - I'm going to reserve judgement until we get some semblance of normality back and then some. It's been just 18 months, 18 of the most toughest months many have ever endured, due to pandemic and war - and it's still not over. The circumstances we've faced have made it impossible to judge either way in my humble opinion - and sitting in the middle with splinters in my arse for fence sitting - no side, neither remain or leave, can categorically state with any genuine certainty whether it's worked or not.

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

I have fewer rights than I did before this happened.

Going to take a lot to convince me there's any upside to it.

[Turns to Stone]

In terms of us notknowing the economic outcome, I totally agree, DL. Having said that - this truly uniqe set of circumstancs has resulted in us ending up with the worst possible Prime Minister we could have had, along with the worst possible cabinet of ministers - selected purely because they were willing to hold their hand up and say that Brexit was a good idea. The desperation to 'get it done', has left us with a an absolute joke of a government at a time when we really needed our A-team on this.

Boris has got everything wrong. His team around him have got everything wrong. And there is no accountability anymore because the bloke at the top is the worst of the lot.

I was happy to go with the vote. But I'm not happy that it means that the governing party have had to tear themselves apart in order to do something that looks at this early stage like it will be, at best, an economic mistake, and at worst an absolute disaster.

Brexit led to Boris. And that's what's ****ed us.

[Monkeybubbles]

Neglecting to assess Brexit now because its too early, or because Covid, is like watching Cresswell get repeatedly skinned and only doing something about it at the end of the season. That'd never happen.

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

The desperation to 'get it done', has left us with a an absolute joke of a government at a time when we really needed our A-team on this.

Assuming we were coming out after the vote would Mays lot have been better than this lot? Would her deal have been better, would they have dealt with the aftermath and the going forward better?

If not what would constitute the A team?

[EvilC]

Assuming we were coming out after the vote would Mays lot have been better than this lot? Would her deal have been better, would they have dealt with the aftermath and the going forward better?

If not what would constitute the A team?

Johnson's deal was essentially May's deal with the backstop triggered and subsequently complained about very loudly. I am of the opinion that having a free trade area that is smaller than your own country is quite bad, so I'd say that her deal was better. Since this is what most of the beef with the EU has been about, I suspect the aftermath would have been less bad.

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

Johnson's deal was essentially May's deal with the backstop triggered and subsequently complained about very loudly. I am of the opinion that having a free trade area that is smaller than your own country is quite bad, so I'd say that her deal was better. Since this is what most of the beef with the EU has been about, I suspect the aftermath would have been less bad.

I'm thinking about the brexit lead to Boris bit really. No doubt as it transpired and polarised into mainly 2 extreme camps it did but for voters I would say frustration with brexit lead to Boris.

For me (repeating myself a bit) much of this goes back to Cameron. He promised a referendum to win an election but then went straight into it believing, presumably, speed guaranteed a remain win. This hubris meant nothing was planned for in the event of a leave vote. What should have happened was hold the parliamentary vote on having election once those 540 odd votes were in the bag - pause the whole thing. We had been promised a referendum for years to get nothing why the sudden rush. Plan how leaving would look - get it signed off with the EU (however it looked) and then hold the vote. Stay or leave like this.

It's an issue parliament should have lead on but chose/was only allowed to follow. Almost everything from that point has been chaotic and about politics to the point MPs were so rigid they turned down every option and left us with what we got.

Camerons fear and lack of planning
Remains over confidence
Cummings
Lead to brexit

Mays election cockup
The erg and remain majorities 2 year f*** up of petulance
A power hungry self serving, back stabbing, popular foreign secretary
Lead to Boris

Take any of those out and we aren't here today imo.

[RichieRiv]

Nail on head Sammy. Cameron started this **** storm because he did a deal with Nige so he could win an overall majority. In the end the deal wasn't necessary, but he had to go through it.

Personally I think Cameron should be tried for treason and taken to the tower.

[Loftyhammer]

edited....
It's an issue parliament should have lead on but chose/was only allowed to follow. Almost everything from that point has been chaotic and about politics to the point MPs were so rigid they turned down every option and left us with what we got.

Camerons fear and lack of planning
Remains over confidence
Cummings
Lead to brexit

Mays election cockup
The erg and remain majorities 2 year **** up of petulance
A power hungry self serving, back stabbing, popular foreign secretary
Lead to Boris

Take any of those out and we aren't here today imo.

Completely agree on the Remain overconfidence....but can I also add to that list Labour (Corbyn) completely abrogating any kind of view on Brexit? From what I understand, Corbyn was a "leaver" at heart so largely stayed out of the whole thing, thereby pretty much allowing the Leave campaign a totally free run at the usual Labour heartland. Only my view obviously

Saw a question posed on Twitter this morning (where else!) asking who would seek to rejoin the EU if we could. I think my answer would be no - even though I voted Remain. My biggest frustration with leaving is that we had the best of all worlds with how we were positioned in the EU. We weren't part of the shared currency and we had the ability to use our veto to prevent being dragged too far into any kind of broader federalism.
If we tried to get back in, we'd probably have to go back under such unfavourable terms, I'm not convinced it would be a great idea.

[Shabu]

The transition period ended in 2021 so in effect we've had just over a year of leaving the EU fully. It'd be hard to make a judgement on what's happened in just over a year.

Not answering would have been a better answer than that wash out attempt

[Turns to Stone]

Assuming we were coming out after the vote would Mays lot have been better than this lot? Would her deal have been better, would they have dealt with the aftermath and the going forward better?

If not what would constitute the A team?

The A-team should be the best people for the job based on their ability, not based on whether they were one of the small amount of MP's willing to put their hands up and say that they felt that Brexit was a good idea.

[Turns to Stone]

I'm thinking about the brexit lead to Boris bit really. No doubt as it transpired and polarised into mainly 2 extreme camps it did but for voters I would say frustration with brexit lead to Boris.

For me (repeating myself a bit) much of this goes back to Cameron. He promised a referendum to win an election but then went straight into it believing, presumably, speed guaranteed a remain win. This hubris meant nothing was planned for in the event of a leave vote. What should have happened was hold the parliamentary vote on having election once those 540 odd votes were in the bag - pause the whole thing. We had been promised a referendum for years to get nothing why the sudden rush. Plan how leaving would look - get it signed off with the EU (however it looked) and then hold the vote. Stay or leave like this.

It's an issue parliament should have lead on but chose/was only allowed to follow. Almost everything from that point has been chaotic and about politics to the point MPs were so rigid they turned down every option and left us with what we got.

Camerons fear and lack of planning
Remains over confidence
Cummings
Lead to brexit

Mays election cockup
The erg and remain majorities 2 year **** up of petulance
A power hungry self serving, back stabbing, popular foreign secretary
Lead to Boris

Take any of those out and we aren't here today imo.

But Cameron and his government were never prepared to plan ahead for an event that they didn't want to happen. As I've said all along - there was no plan in place and as such, Brexit was never going to be a success and the end result was a PM resigning. The Tory government called a referendum that they had no interest in, and were convinced they would 'win'. The end result has been a vacuum where any old wide-boy or girl could end up as Leader of the country or Home Secretary.

That's the point I'm making about us ending up with our 'B-team' on this. You and I are pretty much in agreement on this one Sammy. Failure to prepare has lead to where we are - and has ended up with a god awful government who is an embarrasment to the country.