Brexit referendum result aftermath

[-DL-]

(And corned beef hash is food of the gods)

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Corned Beef and Branston pickle sandwich is an excellent choice

[dasnutnock3]

Tinned. All. Day. Long.

I bought a tin earlier. But I’m rather sophisticated, see, so I’m going to have it in a sandwich tomorrow, with horseradish, and possibly a layer of crisps (salt & vinegar squares).

[-DL-]

Just cube it, dip it in horse radish, and plonk the cube between two salt and vinegar squares. You don't even need the bread. Plus it's heathier. Less carbs.

Did you say you're sophisticated?

[dasnutnock3]

Anyway, whoever mentioned the pandemic obfuscating the effects of Brexit has it spot on, and I’d be willing to bet that Brexit’s main sponsors and beneficiaries were absolutely delighted when it hit.

[dasnutnock3]

Did you say you're sophisticated?

Sophisticated as ****, me. I’m talking proper branded crisps, none of your own brand stuff.

Oh, who am I kidding? They’re Lidl, okay?

[-DL-]

Sophisticated as ****, me. I’m talking proper branded crisps, none of your own brand stuff.

Oh, who am I kidding? They’re Lidl, okay?

See, Brexit is working, you can still get salt and vinegar square potato snacks from EU based Lidl, no doubt with EU spuds and cooked in EU oil.

(If you were sophisticated, you'd never sully the name of crisps with salt and vinegar squares, damn you)

[dasnutnock3]

Mate, I’ve long since given up trying to fathom the net effect of Brexit. All I knew from day dot was that an infrastructural change of that magnitude would give the biggest benefits to politicians, lawyers and big businesses.

[666 hammer]

And yet those groups of people where making such a fuss.
The lockdown has highlighted all that being members of the EU has curropted.
Not a direct EU policy but University for all. Sounds great but has left a massive skills shortage, and created massive wealth for the Universities. The idea cheap endless look about us available.
Last minute delivery. When borders are shut this has massive impact.
I love that remain/rejoin are pining hope on the 18's and under. A group that has never worked or voted into joining a political union.
Given the last show of non turn out by this group, they may have to wait another 10, 15 years before the majority are politicaly interested. And by then they will most likely have family, a career and not be soon keen for more government control.

[EvilC]

Seek help.

[RichieRiv]

Mate, I’ve long since given up trying to fathom the net effect of Brexit.

I don't think we ever will as Brexit has not been carried out in isolation. There have been other factors, namely Covid, but I suspect if someone hadn't ordered Sweet and Sour Bat, then there would have been other global factors that came into play.

Both sides of the argument can make claims and counterclaims,the reality is we don't know and for many, it's a handy excuse.

[Bond Holder 59]

It’s interesting, but the ‘remain’ posts about my first post on this topic quote facts from one side, and all the ‘leave’ posters, who appear to read different feeds, expect outcomes completely different, both as global stability appears (shock).

But my point was/is we don’t have (never had) a fact based set of data, nor a comparison context, nor a guaranteed spec of what to win or lose would really mean as it was all subjective depending on your start point - and news feeds. So much we think we know about ‘facts’ is partially reliable at best. My family have NHS connections, being outside London and experiencing a perception that things are improving. Whilst you may feel different, it does not make our perception wrong.

I know of companies who are doing better, having taken change steps to enter new markets, even products. Employment is up in the East Midlands and supply of things generally is not unacceptable. We should be buying in season and local for climate issues anyway. Houses are a bit more available, but continue to rise.

The universities haven’t sunk; the farmers are adapting to new uk based subsidises; the medical service are still operating and medication is available; big finance transactions continue in the city; technology development is actually improving as we throw money at various projects.

The softer benefits like freedom to choose and allocation of our own money to projects is taking shape (again within global issues context), and so I perceive a different but positive outlook.

Regarding the young, can only comment on the young outside a typical metropolis, and in my part of the country, but no evidence of a majority that would reverse Brexit. Small sample yes, but no less accurate that the university activists who talk to their closed feedback group.

Perhaps the most interesting perspective comes from our German friends and Italian neighbours, all have taken Uk citizenship and all have stayed as our quality of life and opportunity is “slightly better” than that available in their country of birth. Ironically c19 has amplified those views they say.

I accept and understand 48% will disagree, but we need to get some unbiased facts (for example all the ONS data not just selected examples) and that will take elapse time. For example, is our reduction in European trade worse or better than say Italy, France etc 24 months after COVID and energy have globally stabilised, and in particular any decisions they took about everything since 2019? Life across Central Europe appears not as attractive for the many as some might think.

I’ll drop off this topic now as 2016-2019 war is over, I need to enjoy the peace.

[EvilC]

It’s interesting, but the ‘remain’ posts about my first post on this topic quote facts from one side, and all the ‘leave’ posters, who appear to read different feeds, expect outcomes completely different, both as global stability appears (shock).

But my point was/is we don’t have (never had) a fact based set of data, nor a comparison context, nor a guaranteed spec of what to win or lose would really mean as it was all subjective depending on your start point - and news feeds. So much we think we know about ‘facts’ is partially reliable at best. My family have NHS connections, being outside London and experiencing a perception that things are improving. Whilst you may feel different, it does not make our perception wrong.

I know of companies who are doing better, having taken change steps to enter new markets, even products. Employment is up in the East Midlands and supply of things generally is not unacceptable. We should be buying in season and local for climate issues anyway. Houses are a bit more available, but continue to rise.

The universities haven’t sunk; the farmers are adapting to new uk based subsidises; the medical service are still operating and medication is available; big finance transactions continue in the city; technology development is actually improving as we throw money at various projects.

The softer benefits like freedom to choose and allocation of our own money to projects is taking shape (again within global issues context), and so I perceive a different but positive outlook.

Regarding the young, can only comment on the young outside a typical metropolis, and in my part of the country, but no evidence of a majority that would reverse Brexit. Small sample yes, but no less accurate that the university activists who talk to their closed feedback group.

Perhaps the most interesting perspective comes from our German friends and Italian neighbours, all have taken Uk citizenship and all have stayed as our quality of life and opportunity is “slightly better” than that available in their country of birth. Ironically c19 has amplified those views they say.

I accept and understand 48% will disagree, but we need to get some unbiased facts (for example all the ONS data not just selected examples) and that will take elapse time. For example, is our reduction in European trade worse or better than say Italy, France etc 24 months after COVID and energy have globally stabilised, and in particular any decisions they took about everything since 2019? Life across Central Europe appears not as attractive for the many as some might think.

I’ll drop off this topic now as 2016-2019 war is over, I need to enjoy the peace.

lol

1) What "remain" posts? As far as I can see, you got one response, from me.
2) Please cite examples of the balanced, nuanced responses from the pro-Brexit camp.
2) You may not have a fact based set of data, however I'll assume that you know what the ONS does. They may be wrong, but they'll produce better data than anyone else since that is what they tend to do. Brexit has shrunk the economy. You can look at all the data, nobody is stopping you.
4) We were free to buy in season for climate change purposes anyway. That has not changed. Are you down the local farm shop every week, buying locally sourced produce?
5) That your neighbours have elected to stay can't be chalked up as a Brexit success. Were they planning to go home before we elected to leave the EU?
6) It isn't about how great or not life in central Europe is. The UK was always going to be an island and other territories located just to the North-West of there. It is about how it makes life better or worse here.

Your statement suffers from exactly what your first one did - lots of words, but little to back it up, just some anecdotal stuff and some hand-waving.

The point is this - the reasons for Brexit for me did not stand up when analysed. There has been nothing significant that has happened since to justify it. It has been damaging. Therefore "you need to wait a couple of decades before judging" is incorrect, because I can judge on what is available now and there is nothing to suggest that this is going to improve.

[Junco Partner]

The governments Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) report in Oct was fairly clear:
"...supply bottlenecks have been exacerbated by changes in the migration and trading regimes following Brexit”
"...the evidence so far suggests that both import and export intensity have been reduced by Brexit, with developments still consistent with our initial assumption of a 15 per cent reduction in each."

Richard Hughes, Chairman of the OBR, said leaving the EU would "reduce the UK’s potential GDP by about 4% in the long term", and the COVID pandemic would reduce it “by a further 2%” He was able to disentangle Brexit from COVID issues regarding trade.

Unfortunately, due to the nature of the 2016 'debate' it has become too much of an identity issue for some and evidence like that, and of their own eyes, is ignored, belittled or rationalised away with anything but Brexit to be blamed. Whether that changes over time is anyone's guess but hopefully for the sake of us all a bit more rationality is brought back in to the debate.

[666 hammer]

Wow. And that is a 'expert'. So the fact that World imports and exports have slowed, from the Ever Given blocking the Suez canal, World wide factory closures, flights reduced to the minimum possible, border crossings made harder due to covid restrictions, record World wide inflation.Tax rises due to paying for covid relief, job loses due to shutting down the economy. And the conclusion is Brexit is worse.
The OBR have not changed their prediction of - 4%,Gdp since 2019. What will the excuse be for high gdp growth in 2021?
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn02784/

The stats show that gdp has not reached a all time high of 7.2% since 1984. It has not gone above 4% since 2000.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=AOa ... =679&dpr=3

[Monkeybubbles]

Unfortunately, due to the nature of the 2016 'debate' it has become too much of an identity issue for some and evidence like that, and of their own eyes, is ignored, belittled or rationalised away with anything but Brexit to be blamed.

Hold my pint.

[Rays Rock]

Unfortunately, due to the nature of the 2016 'debate' it has become too much of an identity issue for some and evidence like that, and of their own eyes, is ignored, belittled or rationalised away with anything but Brexit to be blamed . Whether that changes over time is anyone's guess but hopefully for the sake of us all a bit more rationality is brought back in to the debate.

Look forward to it JP

[EvilC]

Wow. And that is a 'expert'. So the fact that World imports and exports have slowed, from the Ever Given blocking the Suez canal, World wide factory closures, flights reduced to the minimum possible, border crossings made harder due to covid restrictions, record World wide inflation.Tax rises due to paying for covid relief, job loses due to shutting down the economy. And the conclusion is Brexit is worse.
The OBR have not changed their prediction of - 4%,Gdp since 2019. What will the excuse be for high gdp growth in 2021?
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn02784/

The stats show that gdp has not reached a all time high of 7.2% since 1984. It has not gone above 4% since 2000.
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=AOa ... =679&dpr=3

What excuse is there for high growth in 2021? I am racking my brain but really cannot think. Maybe it was something to do with being shut in our houses for a large part of 2020.

[Junco Partner]

When you fall farthest into a big hole (the biggest fall in the G7), boasting that you are now climbing out at quite a fast rate (GDP growth) while the others are still looking down on you isn't anything to shout about.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Not sure yet
Might go for fusilli bolognese and then get them to put a chicken escalope on top

My favorite sandwich shop 'in town' is Casella on Salisbury Court just off Fleet Street

I couldn't ask about Brexit in the end as my wife gave birth to a baby boy at 2.30am Monday morning!

Went in to hospital just after the Chiefs v Bills NFL match started and son was born before it finished!