-DL- wrote:It's a tricky one, and it depends on the wording of the options.
I'd be quite happy to leave the EU, but also have a trade agreement with them.
what people don't seem to have grasped is that a trade agreement ie, remianing a part of the European Economic Area means we will still have the freedom of movement/labour laws we have now. We may reduce our budget contributions but we will still have the immigration and the Brussels regulation.
The next step is to try and negotiate trade on a case by case basis which would be a nightmare.
Be interesting to see what Cameron can deliver from the discussions with the EU if anything. I don't see what he can drastically change in terms of immigration, which is basically what the whole referendum is predicated on, without a drastic change to nature of open movement.
Big George wrote:what people don't seem to have grasped is that a trade agreement ie, remianing a part of the European Economic Area means we will still have the freedom of movement/labour laws we have now.
That must be changeable.
The EU is currently negotiating a trade deal with the US. There's no agreement to let the citizens of the two continents country-hop willy-nilly.
It must be remembered, the EU make money out of us, not the other way round. It is certainly not in Germany's interest to shut the door on UK trade and when we're talking EU there are only half a dozen nations that really matter.
What's the EU motivation to change it? works for 31 countries
The EU is currently negotiating a trade deal with the US. There's no agreement to let the citizens of the two continents country-hop willy-nilly.
And its been going on for years and will continue to go on for years
It must be remembered, the EU make money out of us, not the other way round. It is certainly not in Germany's interest to shut the door on UK trade and when we're talking EU there are only half a dozen nations that really matter.
The EU's (i.e Germany + about 4/5 important others) motivation will be entirely financial.
The former Soviet Republic of Wombledonia and all the other countries that are the size of my wheelie bin really don't matter in the context of our relationship..
OllyWHU6 wrote: I don't see what he can drastically change in terms of immigration, which is basically what the whole referendum is predicated on, without a drastic change to nature of open movement.
Agree that's what is in most people's mind at the moment. I'm also in favour of staying in, whilst being aware that the economic side is a complete unknown to me and, I suspect, most people.There will, I hope, be high-profile campaigning laying it out for us mere mortals what it means from both sides so we can understand what we are voting for and make a decision more from the mind than the heart. In that, I suppose some good could come from it. Ironically, it kind of mirrors what the Scots have been errrrrming about through their referendum and now the GE, not quite knowing for sure where it will lead.
A lot will depend on who is entitled to vote in the referendum. I wouldn't put it past Cameron to somehow let all EU citizens resident in the UK have a vote. I can't see all the East Europeans who are here saving for their mansion back home while sending back child benefit [/stereotype] voting to leave.
Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:A lot will depend on who is entitled to vote in the referendum. I wouldn't put it past Cameron to somehow let all EU citizens resident in the UK have a vote. I can't see all the East Europeans who are here saving for their mansion back home while sending back child benefit [/stereotype] voting to leave.
Constitutionally that would be very underhanded. This is an issue for British citizens, and only British citizens, I feel. And being resident abroad thanks to EU freedom of movement (but been here long enough to claim naturalisation), I believe it should be the same as UK general elections, where I don't believe EU residents that are not British citizens get a vote (for example, I could vote in the constituency of Poplar and Limehouse this year but not in Swedish parliamentary elections last year since I haven't got round to claiming citizenship, even though it's a formality).
I'm both in-and-out of the EU anyway if an out vote happens since I don't see Swedes asking for it (they should though IMHO) and I can hold both passports.
The EU as a United States of Europe is a failed experiment.