NWhammer wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 11:51 pm
His best moment came when he went wide right, got to the byline and crossed. Funny that.
Was it?
I thought it might be when he burst through and hit a hard drive on the half volley. Or maybe his running and crossing from both wings as he ran himself into the ground trying to make space and opportunities for people like Bowen, Soucek, Fornals, Lanzini and Rice - all of whom played a lot worse overall.
It encapsulated his season. You can flog a dead horse only so much.
Dreadful management. Moyes has had some blind spot for nearly 18 months now. He’s been brilliant, but not when dealing with the number 9.
I thought Thursday was a typical performance from him, the ball gets played up to him and most of the time he fails to control it or is unable to lay off a simple pass to a team mate.
The odd occasion he does control it and spins in behind, perhaps two or three times out of every ten, this seems to be enough for people to think he is some sort of master centre forward who is great at holding up the ball.
Next game please watch how often we manage to retain possession when it is played to Antonio, it rarely happens. I like him and can see his merits but please next year can we have a forward who can trap the ball and find a team mate with a pass.
Centre Half wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 9:52 am
I thought Thursday was a typical performance from him, the ball gets played up to him and most of the time he fails to control it or is unable to lay off a simple pass to a team mate.
The odd occasion he does control it and spins in behind, perhaps two or three times out of every ten, this seems to be enough for people to think he is some sort of master centre forward who is great at holding up the ball.
Next game please watch how often we manage to retain possession when it is played to Antonio, it rarely happens. I like him and can see his merits but please next year can we have a forward who can trap the ball and find a team mate with a pass.
.
and every time this happens, he has two of three players in close attendance too
Puff Daddy wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 9:57 am
.
and every time this happens, he has two of three players in close attendance too
It's actually the reverse Puff, we don't.
And therein lies the main issue.
When looking for a replacement he needs to score goals, hold the ball up long enough for others to join in, pass to feet and make himself available for the return pass/cross, run the channels and above all make sure he runs non stop for 90 minutes otherwise you get screamed at for being a lazy **** (as the mob behind me were calling him on Thursday).
I'm just wondering who this player is, it's our current style of play that dictates the type of forward we require.
It's the reason Haller failed (in some people's eyes), that and the fact that apparently he didn't smile much.
Am struggling to think who we could get in that a) would come to us and b) would be available at a price we are willing to pay.
mushy wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 10:10 am
Am struggling to think who we could get in that a) would come to us and b) would be available at a price we are willing to pay.
there isn't one.
ask David Moyes.
Lord knows what we're going to do when he's 43 and still playing up front for us..
Doc H Ball wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 12:56 am
Was it?
I thought it might be when he burst through and hit a hard drive on the half volley. Or maybe his running and crossing from both wings as he ran himself into the ground trying to make space and opportunities for people like Bowen, Soucek, Fornals, Lanzini and Rice - all of whom played a lot worse overall.
It encapsulated his season. You can flog a dead horse only so much.
Dreadful management. Moyes has had some blind spot for nearly 18 months now. He’s been brilliant, but not when dealing with the number 9.
Dreadful management? Blind spot with Antonio? I cannot agree. Antonio has had very good season and pretty much injury free, surprisingly. I believe he has been well managed by the coaching staff and physio's.
I think Antonio performed better up top alone when our defence held a higher line so it was easier to get numbers around him, I think that is one downfalls of Dawson's and Cresswell's lack of pace in that we often found ourselves defending a lot deeper as a team isolating Antonio a lot more up front.
I feel Ogbonna has been a massive miss for us, in so much how much his attributes not only influenced how we defended but how we also attacked.
Centre Half wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 9:52 am
The odd occasion he does control it and spins in behind, perhaps two or three times out of every ten, this seems to be enough for people to think he is some sort of master centre forward who is great at holding up the ball.
Next game please watch how often we manage to retain possession when it is played to Antonio, it rarely happens. I like him and can see his merits but please next year can we have a forward who can trap the ball and find a team mate with a pass.
He can be great at holding up the ball. Plenty of the time he's not. And while there are people who think he's some sort of master centre forward, there's people who think he is terrible too.
I had a look at his passing stats out of curiosity and compared him with some of the other strikers in the league:
Antonio 68%
Lukaku 79%
Ronaldo 82%
Kane 72%
Toney 60%
Pukki 75%
Watkins 73%
Che Adams 67%
Also, some stats from oneversusone.com for Antonio:
390 lost balls (2nd highest in the league)
198 aerial duels won in opponents half (4th highest in the league)
160 aerial duels lost overall (4th highest in the league)
63 lost balls in own half (4th highest in the league)
Which tells a large chunk of the story when it comes to Antonio's hold up play. Not great at retaining the ball, decent at winning it.
I saw some statistics the other day that showed that Antonio had as many shots in the first five games this season as he had in a period of around four months from NYD.
The 'alternative clips' Europa thing for Frankfurt just reminded me of how differently we were functioning up to the late November international break.
Somewhere along the line, the team has lost it's slickness and it's drive. It could be the string of injuries at the back that prompted it. It could be tiredness. It could be the tactical and selection reaction to the Leeds and Kidderminster games. It could be that time is catching up with the older players. It could be other things outside what's happening on the field.
We just have to get through these final three games, then review, learn and improve so that we are able to slip back into the from we had earlier in the season. That applies both individually and as a unit.
prophet:marginal wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 10:05 am
Antonio is on my long list of 5 players for HotY
Rice
Dawson
Bowen
Zouma
Antonio
In that order for me. A big gap between 4th and 5th for me though. Those top 4 have put in consistently good performances throughout the season. I will add though, I do think Antonio has played much of this season not to get injured, he sprints less and when he does it's not full throttle. Could be a Moyes instruction or a decision he has made himself, both would be for obvious reasons, but it does lessen one of his biggest strengths.
'stone hammer wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 10:24 am
Rice
Dawson
Bowen
Zouma
Antonio
In that order for me. A big gap between 4th and 5th for me though. Those top 4 have put in consistently good performances throughout the season. I will add though, I do think Antonio has played much of this season not to get injured, he sprints less and when he does it's not full throttle. Could be a Moyes instruction or a decision he has made himself, both would be for obvious reasons, but it does lessen one of his biggest strengths.
I would include Fornals, at the expense of Zouma, but haven't yet decided the order.
Diogenes wrote: ↑Sat May 07, 2022 12:47 pm
Dreadful management? Blind spot with Antonio? I cannot agree. Antonio has had very good season and pretty much injury free, surprisingly. I believe he has been well managed by the coaching staff and physio's.
Think maybe you misunderstand me. No issue with Antonio. My issue is with not having replaced Haller and given Mic back up so he could be rested or moved as was obviously necessary for everyone a long while ago.
'stone hammer wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 10:14 am
He can be great at holding up the ball. Plenty of the time he's not. And while there are people who think he's some sort of master centre forward, there's people who think he is terrible too.
I had a look at his passing stats out of curiosity and compared him with some of the other strikers in the league:
Antonio 68%
Lukaku 79%
Ronaldo 82%
Kane 72%
Toney 60%
Pukki 75%
Watkins 73%
Che Adams 67%
Also, some stats from oneversusone.com for Antonio:
390 lost balls (2nd highest in the league)
198 aerial duels won in opponents half (4th highest in the league)
160 aerial duels lost overall (4th highest in the league)
63 lost balls in own half (4th highest in the league)
Which tells a large chunk of the story when it comes to Antonio's hold up play. Not great at retaining the ball, decent at winning it.
I think we give Antonio too many 50/50 balls.
We have been too direct in 2022. Burnley at home was a prime example.
I think he wins more than he should, usually against 2 centre backs
bubbles1966 wrote: ↑Sun May 08, 2022 10:16 am
I saw some statistics the other day that showed that Antonio had as many shots in the first five games this season as he had in a period of around four months from NYD.
Whilst he can be anonymous for much of a game, you have to question if he is getting the service. Big hacks up front expecting him to perform miracles is not really productive either. He does draw players to him and create space for others but my only beef is consistency and positioning. He plays all over the place and on the one hand that is versatility, on the other hand, players have no idea where he will be and the box is often vacant. I personally think he is going to be an excellent impact player and turn games if we can find an upgrade striker.
