Trump

[The Old Man of Storr]

I was hoping we would get to see Stormy Daniels put in handcuffs.......

They couldn't fit the four poster bed into the Court Room apparently .

Shucks !!

[The Old Man of Storr]

Phew. No, I can't sleep and I'm sodded if I can read beyond the first pages of either. The official charges read a lot more nasty than the facts. Thought it was just the sexy stuff he was being indicted for, so the pre-election stuff has been hanging around for years? I dislike the bloke from a distance, but what buzzes round my little head is that wasn't Bill Clinton near prosecuted for lying under oath as well? And how many other people have entered dodgy payments as 'general fees' ? I mean I don't even like seeing his mouth opening and closing on tv and the media over here portray a very negative impression of his 'rust belt' supporters, but it grieves me to say that I think there is a 'witch hunt' going on here.Some very high-up people want him out of politics.

I feel the same -

Biden's son and the laptop that went ' missing ' .

Had that come to light before the Elections then Trump would have romped it .

I dislike Trump with a passion but there's something completely dodgy about the way things are done in the US - the whole thing stinks .


Still , Putin , eh ?

[Bend it like Repka]

I dislike Trump with a passion but there's something completely dodgy about the way things are done in the US - the whole thing stinks .

US politics since WW2 has been nothing short of a disgrace. It is the darkest of arts completely lacking in morality in the most part. From the assasination of JFK, to coups, to the middle East it's all shocking.

But Trump is a whole different threat to me, even the most evil souls like Nixon and Cheney wouldn't do the damage Trump could do in another term.

As a side note, considering all the guns and nutters in the US I'm still amazed no one has taken a pot shot at Donald. The CIA set up multiple plans to take out JFK. It can't be that hard.

[The Old Man of Storr]

As a side note, considering all the guns and nutters in the US I'm still amazed no one has taken a pot shot at Donald. The CIA set up multiple plans to take out JFK. It can't be that hard.

When he was first appointed President that's the first thing that crossed my mind , I thought he'd be gone within 6 months .

I'm trying to see the good in him - but absolutely nothing springs to mind apart from him keeping Russia onside which I found refreshing in a US President .

Did he improve the lives of ordinary Americans - if not , why has he got so much support , it's truly baffling ?

I'm not that well up on American Domestic Policy - folk tell me that Obama was a great President but I struggle to think what he achieved ?

Be interesting to hear from our America based posters .

[prophet:marginal]

It's natural for people to be sceptical when the New York County District Attorney Alvin Bragg is an elected official and a Democrat. This is not 100% political, but it certainly plays its part.

What I find amazing is how politicised the judiciary is in the US. What a shitty system.

I agree that their system of political appointments for many different judicial posts seems amazing. In fact, the longer I think about it, the crazier it seems. However, it is deeply embedded in the manner by which the different aspects of power and control are administered in that country and has been in place for decades and decades, such that it was broadly the same for Nixon and Clinton before Trump even became a Republican (a shift which was totally self-serving).

However, it is what it is. Trump knows it very well. He would have known it when he was loudly encouraging people to chant that his direct presidential election opponent should be locked up (which, of course, is short hand for 'prosecuted, convicted and sentenced to imprisonment' for something he claims she did when she was Secretary of State). So, he takes what benefit he can from the system, as he pleases, when he can.

That benefit was very much exploited when he made records by being the only serving president to be impeached twice in merely four years of office. His Republican cohorts, his enablers, who also see the benefits of being able to pay for people to run for DA departments, might well have just sat there during those hearings with their fingers in their ears, so partisan was their involvement in those processes.

However, those points aside, to attack a DA who has convened the Grand Jury simply distracts the people who support him from the fact that the DA wasn't the office-holder who actually indicted Trump. That was a collection of 12 civilians, a jury, who read every document and heard from significant witnesses who answered summonses to be before them to attest to what was in the documents. That is the safety valve, it appears in respect of the amazingly politicised system of justice that the country has.

He simply wants his supporters to ignore that fact. So, he calls it a witch hunt.

[prophet:marginal]

I feel the same -

Biden's son and the laptop that went ' missing ' .

Had that come to light before the Elections then Trump would have romped it .

I dislike Trump with a passion but there's something completely dodgy about the way things are done in the US - the whole thing stinks .


Still , Putin , eh ?

Hunter Biden's laptop has been the subject of lurid speculation since before 2016.

[Het-Field]

Did he improve the lives of ordinary Americans - if not , why has he got so much support , it's truly baffling ?

I'm not that well up on American Domestic Policy - folk tell me that Obama was a great President but I struggle to think what he achieved ?

Be interesting to hear from our America based posters .

Although not American myself, my in-laws etc are, and they have spitballed some interesting theories. One is that America has a strange hierarchy even amongst its strata of poverty. Historically, the 'poor' delineated themselves from the 'very poor', and voted Republican on the belief that they worked hard for what they earned, and therefore, so should everybody including the 'very poor'. Trump stepped in to court the vote of the 'very poor', which included the rust belt, which had gone from a thriving hub of manufacturing to virtual ghost town, where peoples means dropped dramatically. Trump was able to leverage that with his 'America First' mantra, which was also an easy sop to the 'very poor' (who traditionally voted Democrat), in saying that simply by being American, you were better. Essentially, he is now picking up votes from the poor and very poor alike. He also is able to tap into the 'I'm alright jack' mentality that exists across suburban America, where the only negatives of his policy would be marginal on their taxes, and profits on their personal investments. Some just wanted to see what he would do.

But it is important not to forget that the college system was key to his victory, as he didnt win the popular vote. Clinton was also a polarising candidate even amongst Democrats. The Third party and Independent candidates also picked up around 5% of the vote, which was undoubtedly a contributing factor. Had Trump lost in 2016, chances are, that would have been the end of the matter.

[Shabu]

To expand on Het-fields excellent post, after WWII America had 50% of the world's manufacturing. Europe was a wreck & the rest of the planet was not yet developed or also wrecked.

So in the 50s & 60s you could be as thick as **** but still have a well paying job then a great pension.

As the rest of the world caught up, so did corporate greed. In 1970 a CEO earnt roughly seven times what the average worker did. Now it's hundreds more. Money doesn't flow back into local communities but into the pockets of Walmart, Apple, Google, Amazon, etc.

Couple that with American television telling them how superior they are to non whites & non Americans.

From the 80s onwards they have less money and see others (blacks, latinos foreign companies etc) having more influence in America.

Then trump comes along and says 'We're taking back America. We're making it great again" & they lap it up. He's promised them a place back at the head of the table.

Watch any commercial here and you'll see it tell Americans that they are the best and deserve the best. It's ingrained into them from a youthful age.

trump's just sending the same message.

[WCpete]

I feel the same -

Biden's son and the laptop that went ' missing ' .

Had that come to light before the Elections then Trump would have romped it .

I dislike Trump with a passion but there's something completely dodgy about the way things are done in the US - the whole thing stinks .


Still , Putin , eh ?

It's all very dirty across the board right now, I agree. But, no other dirty President and his coalition has tried what Trump has tried on a scale this big. Ignoring most of his very dangerous transgressions over a 3 year period, and focussing on just his last year in office, he demonstrably tried to steal an election through coercion, through misinformation on a global scale, through fraud, through bribery and in the end through violence. It isn't an exaggeration to say that he attempted a coup d'é·tat. He needs to be prosecuted.

[WCpete]

To expand on Het-fields excellent post, after WWII America had 50% of the world's manufacturing. Europe was a wreck & the rest of the planet was not yet developed or also wrecked.

So in the 50s & 60s you could be as thick as **** but still have a well paying job then a great pension.

As the rest of the world caught up, so did corporate greed. In 1970 a CEO earnt roughly seven times what the average worker did. Now it's hundreds more. Money doesn't flow back into local communities but into the pockets of Walmart, Apple, Google, Amazon, etc.

Couple that with American television telling them how superior they are to non whites & non Americans.

From the 80s onwards they have less money and see others (blacks, latinos foreign companies etc) having more influence in America.

Then trump comes along and says 'We're taking back America. We're making it great again" & they lap it up. He's promised them a place back at the head of the table.

Watch any commercial here and you'll see it tell Americans that they are the best and deserve the best. It's ingrained into them from a youthful age.

trump's just sending the same message.

I get what you're saying, but I don't entirely agree. It's a lot more complicated than this. That said, I can't chat about it right now. Got to get some work done before KO. COYI!

[Het-Field]

To expand on Het-fields excellent post, after WWII America had 50% of the world's manufacturing. Europe was a wreck & the rest of the planet was not yet developed or also wrecked.

So in the 50s & 60s you could be as thick as **** but still have a well paying job then a great pension.

As the rest of the world caught up, so did corporate greed. In 1970 a CEO earnt roughly seven times what the average worker did. Now it's hundreds more. Money doesn't flow back into local communities but into the pockets of Walmart, Apple, Google, Amazon, etc.

Couple that with American television telling them how superior they are to non whites & non Americans.

From the 80s onwards they have less money and see others (blacks, latinos foreign companies etc) having more influence in America.

Then trump comes along and says 'We're taking back America. We're making it great again" & they lap it up. He's promised them a place back at the head of the table.

Watch any commercial here and you'll see it tell Americans that they are the best and deserve the best. It's ingrained into them from a youthful age.

trump's just sending the same message.

I dont have a link, but The Guardian had an interesting article on a town called Beattyville KY, which was the poorest, majority white town in the USA. A former coal mining hub, the companies that mined the coal never left a lasting social structure there, and when it became more profitable to mine elsewhere, they left. The only major industry that filled the void was the pharmaceutical companies that willingly provided for the mass prescription of strong painkillers (no jobs were provided) to the mining community that was feeling the effects of years in the mines. So they sold their wares, which in turn has impacted the manner in which lives are lived there, and have even seen things like the 'soda-pop' racket spring up, where food stamps can indirectly be traded for money.

Remarkably, rather than understanding that the departure of the coal companies from KY was a profit driven decision (i.e. capitalism), they incorrectly point to the EPA and Democrats, even though coal continues to be heavily mined in states like the North and South Dakota. The point there is, people who have been left of the cusp of destitution will find new ways to cling onto hope, and Trump's 'America First' platitude plays directly into the hopes and dreams of the most marginalised, even though business costs etc will ensure that places like Beattyville will continue to be left behind.

[WCpete]

One of Trump's promises in his '16 campaign, was that he'd reopen the coal mines across the Appalachia, the Bible belt and other mid Atlantic states. He abandoned that promise almost immediately once in office, blaming it on the swamp in Washington. His supporters in these areas stayed on board with him. This isn't to say that what Trump did was out of the realm of normality for a politician trying to get elected. Campaign promises that are lies are part and parcel. That the people who voted for him didn't waver in their support in the face of the truth emboldened him immensely. He could and would do what he wanted. Still, no crime in lying to your constituents. What was it Dubya once said?

[Shabu]

I get what you're saying, but I don't entirely agree. It's a lot more complicated than this. That said, I can't chat about it right now. Got to get some work done before KO. COYI!

Pete,

Obviously it's a lot more complex than my little post but I'm speaking as someone who came here aged 27 & on my very first day being shocked by the commercials on tv. I remember thinking that the advertising companies must think Americans are stupid to believe the message they're sending.

Then I came to realise that it's just a normal part of American life. Everything, especially US history, is fudged & smudged so (mainly white) Americans are led to believe they are gods chosen people.

The Pilgrims were escaping religious persecution (not true)

The Native Americans were a heathen bunch who needed the white mans religion & morals (not true)

The revolution was a group of noble American farmers who rose up against the evil tyranny of the British (slightly true but no one mentions the French, Dutch or Spanish involvement)

Black Americans have been treated equally since 1865 (complete b*llocks).

We all know that you're not one of those Americans but you know that a massive chunk of Americans in the middle States do believe all these myths.

trump definitely knows this & has brilliantly tapped into it.

[WCpete]

Again, I hear you, and there is truth in what you're saying, and I know you know it's more complicated than that, but it's more complicated than that.

[Billydinho]

It just reminds me of the party gate nonsense over here.

Petty nonsense from the petty side of politics.

[Samba]

Hunter Biden's laptop has been the subject of lurid speculation since before 2016.

I'm hoping it wasn't as bad as Paul Gadd's laptop..

[Samba]

I'm trying to see the good in him - but absolutely nothing springs to mind apart from him keeping Russia onside which I found refreshing in a US President .
Did he improve the lives of ordinary Americans - if not , why has he got so much support , it's truly baffling ?

That's a cult for you, TOMoS.
Rednecks, yeehaws, the poorly educated, racists, the 'anti-woke', there's millions of them & Trump's got them all eating out of his tiny, little hands.
He's a charlatan & a dreadful, human being.
"I'm President! Can you believe it?"
No Donald, we really couldn't.
I genuinely fear for America if he ever becomes President again.

[Shabu]

That's a cult for you, TOMoS.
Rednecks, yeehaws, the poorly educated, racists, the 'anti-woke', there's millions of them & Trump's got them all eating out of his tiny, little hands.
He's a charlatan & a dreadful, human being.
"I'm President! Can you believe it?"
No Donald, we really couldn't.
I genuinely fear for America if he ever becomes President again.

Most people hate him. It's just a core 30% or so that like him. And they WILL vote, just like the pro Brexit voters did (I'm not saying for or against Brexit, just that the pro Brexit crowd were more fervent).

There was almost 137,000,000 votes in 2016 which is 54.8% of the population.

That rose to almost 160,000,000 in 2020, 62%. This was the first time that over 60% of eligible voters voted in over 50 years.

As long as people turn out & don't get complacent.

[The Old Man of Storr]

Again, I hear you, and there is truth in what you're saying, and I know you know it's more complicated than that, but it's more complicated than that.

How complicated is it on a scale of 1 - 10 ?

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

This **** is way more damaging to any chances of Trump winning next year than his financial misdemeanours finally catching up with him. The loonier elements of the Republican party have got all giddy since the abortion decision and are trying to live out all of their creepy authoritarian fantasies.