27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

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delbert
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by delbert »

Danny's Dyer Acting wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:27 pm That's just a stupid and frankly quite offensive thing to suggest Mr. Bert.

I'd be far too busy asking him why he set the orphanage on fire in the first place.
I had a reply, but then I switched off........ :wink:
Last edited by delbert on Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by Tenbury »

bubbles1966 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:57 pm
This sorry accident should shine a spotlight on what a **** up social housing often is. A lot of people of a particular persuasion have never lived in council housing and love to romanticise about it. The sheer shitness of it all is one of the reasons huge numbers of Londoners left London.
I'm ignoring the 'Statism' joke, though it was funny,and a ,much needed, reminder that you can still appreciate people you completely disagree with. :D

But are you suggesting that whatever the short comings of social housing,exacerbated by recent changes in tenancy agreements, the private rented market is any better????
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by Clacton-ammer »

Irrons wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:31 pm

What gets me is that the majority of people seem to be more than happy to continue to vote for these politicians over and over again. If you choose to vote for serial liars, chancers and snake-oil salesmen then you're either a fool or a masochist
So we shouldn't vote at all then, as they are all as bad as each other. Of course, depends which side you are on and how you want to interpret something. I will stay with my first part, none of them deserve a vote.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by sendô »

bubbles1966 wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:57 pm It should have been levelled many years ago
We all know why it wasn't.

££££s
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by Etonhammer »

So JRM agrees with the interim report finding, and says it would have been common sense to leave a burning building and not wait for the FB.
This is spun to say he accuses all the people within the tower lacked common sense.

That's ok 'cos he is a nasty evil Tory.

Seems fair :?
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by sendô »

As I wrote in the Brexit thread (not sure why we ended up discussing it in there) in response to Delbs saying similar:
sendô wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:14 am I'm not sure why you're so desperate to defend him to be honest. It was a freudian slip.

Ask yourself this - why is he even making a comment on the radio around what people should or shouldn't have done to save themselves during that tradegy?

It's all a part Operation Blame the Brigade.

Once the public are suitably convinced that the death toll was largely the fault of the mistakes made by LFB, then they'll be willing to accept slaps on wrists for the real culprits - the people that allowed that tower to be surrounded by flammable cladding, and the maintainers that allowed the appalling lack of fire barriers to go unremedied for so long.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by sendô »

Arron Banks letting the mask slip.

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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by James P »

Etonhammer wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:20 pm So JRM agrees with the interim report finding, and says it would have been common sense to leave a burning building and not wait for the FB.
This is spun to say he accuses all the people within the tower lacked common sense.

That's ok 'cos he is a nasty evil Tory.

Seems fair :?
Does the report say it would be common sense for a resident to leave a burning building against the advice of the Fire Brigade?
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by Junco Partner »

Corbyn dropping truth bombs this morning...

"They shamefully seem to think the victims of the Grenfell fire died because they didn’t have the common sense to save themselves.

I’ll tell you what’s common sense:

Don’t put flammable cladding on people’s homes. That’s common sense.

Don’t close fire stations and don’t cut fire fighters. That’s common sense.

And don’t ignore residents when they tell you their home is a death trap.
"
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by sendô »

So a brief summary here.

People to blame for the deaths at Grenfell:

- the people who died, for not having the common sense to know that the whole building was made out of combustible materials and that the needed to ignore previous fire strategy and advise from FB.
- the people who risked their lives running into aforementioned combustible material clad inferno to try and save aforementioned so-to-be-dead idiots because they too didn't know the aforementioned death trap was clad in combustible materials.


Still, the usual suspects are lining up to doff their caps to their betters and toe the party line I see.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by Irrons »

Arron Banks :lol:

They just keep on digging don't they.

Yet more lies today from the conservatives, this time on universal credit:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50304322

Which entitled little snide are they going to drag out to defend this one? They aren't doing too well on the news front in Wales either:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... llegations
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by Etonhammer »

James P wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:13 pm Does the report say it would be common sense for a resident to leave a burning building against the advice of the Fire Brigade?
Is it common sense to follow 'expert' advice and not assess the situation yourself and leave if you can??
I wasn't there but I do know enough to have acted independently if possible. In these type of situations inaction is rarely the answer.

Whilst the perma-offended will jump up and down over what JRM said he was hardly laughing in the face of the bereaved.
It's just another example of politicising of the fire and none of it helps.

Other than JRM being pilloried ,....I mean, he has a posh voice and is educated so must be a evil, nasty man??
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by James P »

Etonhammer wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:24 pm Is it common sense to follow 'expert' advice and not assess the situation yourself and leave if you can??
Yes

Flats like this are designed in a way to stop fire spreading. If you're ten floors above a fire in a tower block, you can't just go out and have a look and see if you can get past it and out. To do so you would almost always encounter smoke well before you see flame or feel heat. You will have next to no information on the size or location of the fire or the toxicity of the smoke it is producing. To just plough on in the hope you'll be fine and be past it in no time would be folly.

Common sense is to contact the experts who have far more information than you and abide by their instruction. They will have much better knowledge of the precise threat this particular fire will cause you and the best way in which to maximise your chances of survival. Throwing around glib comments that "common sense would suggest you get out of the burning building" displays a massive over-simplification of the situation.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

Etonhammer wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:24 pm I wasn't there but I do know enough to have acted independently if possible. In these type of situations inaction is rarely the answer.
Maybe that is true, but more often ill advised action is even worse.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by bubbles1966 »

Tenbury wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:21 am I'm ignoring the 'Statism' joke, though it was funny,and a ,much needed, reminder that you can still appreciate people you completely disagree with. :D

But are you suggesting that whatever the short comings of social housing,exacerbated by recent changes in tenancy agreements, the private rented market is any better????
I’m saying that most of the ‘wouldn’t make a dog live in it’ housing that I’ve ever seen, or been in, is of the same variety as Grenfell and almost all of it was built by the state.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by Tenbury »

Then ,fortunately for you, you have no experience of just how poor some of the places UK citizens inhabit really are.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by sendô »

Etonhammer wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:24 pm Is it common sense to follow 'expert' advice and not assess the situation yourself and leave if you can??
Yes, it is actually.

Most people on the lower floors left early on, of course.

Typically in residential developments with a single escape staircase, the fire strategy is to keep the escape routes clear and free of fire loads, and for each "unit" to be 2 hour fire rated.

This strategy - when built properly - has been shown to be effective. It gives the Fire Brigade time to assess the situation, tackle the fire and have clear access up and down the building, and evacuate residents as and when needed.

The reality is, in normal cases, the volume of residents will be in excess of the capacity of the staircase. If everyone tips out at once, the staircases will become blocked, and then it's a slow trudge down, blocking the Brigade's ability to tackle the fire.

Of course, we can build buildings with more staircases, but that takes up more space and costs more money, and as we all know money is the be-all and end-all of everything.

It's not just residential - I did a large office block a few years back, multi-story above and below ground, 6 staircases for a building that holds ~6000. The fire strategy for that building was for only the floors above and below a reported fire and the basement to evac - if the whole building tipped out at once, the staircases would be blocked.

Of course, all of this relies on fire barriers to be installed correctly, and the cladding not to be flammable...
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

Sends - I wish it had never been necessary but I just wanted to comment on the quality of your posting in this subject.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by sendô »

Thanks Dave, I suppose there's some advantages to being a Project Manager after all.
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Re: 27 storey London Tower block Fire -Latimer road

Post by bubbles1966 »

Tenbury wrote: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:17 pm Then ,fortunately for you, you have no experience of just how poor some of the places UK citizens inhabit really are.
I've been to a pretty reasonable cross section of housing over the years. Probably more representative than most. My job involved it for years.
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