Marko Arnautovic

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Rio
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by Rio »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:07 am They were not the only factors I mentioned.

Ince, a young lad, whole career ahead of him, prospect of division 2 or playing for the biggest club in the land and knowing that his mentor, the manager who discovered him and developed his career was going to be shown no loyalty and sacked

Ince went about it the wrong way but no one can really blame him for leaving from a career perspective

Personally prefer the story of a local lad made good (and prepared to cut him much more slack for it) than a football mercenary chasing the money in China, and the other just downing tools and insisting on one club and one club only because of 'issues' of his own making

Anyway, just my opinion. As I said, I wasn't attending West Ham regularly when Ince left, (and was only 11) so probably more emotiknally removed from the situation as others

I was not that bothered by Arnie either to be honest as never really warmed to him anyway.

Payet is the one that sticks in my craw though. If he had stayed and played to the summer I would have had no problem with him leaving at all. Going on strike mid season to force the only option he was interested in was the issue for or me


Ince didn’t join the biggest club in the land. He joined Manchester United.
The attitude he displayed and the distain and petulance he showed we’re abysmal and still hurt those of us who went through it. His subsequent self portrayal of himself. His further reactions (threatening West Ham fans outside of old Trafford, hiding behind his minders) added fuel to the fire.

Different era to the other 2. You want a more relevant comparison. See Bilic. Signed for Everton, but gave it his all in all his other appearances for us. Not hiding. No shirking. No moodiness, no petulance. No arrogance.

Ince as the phrase goes :thdn: on his own doorstep, then continued to act the fool for years to come.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

Look forward, not back.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Rio wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:23 am Ince didn’t join the biggest club in the land. He joined Manchester United.
The attitude he displayed and the distain and petulance he showed we’re abysmal and still hurt those of us who went through it. His subsequent self portrayal of himself. His further reactions (threatening West Ham fans outside of old Trafford, hiding behind his minders) added fuel to the fire.

Different era to the other 2. You want a more relevant comparison. See Bilic. Signed for Everton, but gave it his all in all his other appearances for us. Not hiding. No shirking. No moodiness, no petulance. No arrogance.

Ince as the phrase goes :thdn: on his own doorstep, then continued to act the fool for years to come.
:thup:
I don't necessarily agree but enjoy reading other viewpoints
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by RichieRiv »

Maidenhead72 wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:14 am Surprised no one has mention Paul Allen. Wasn't he the original Judas for going to Spurs?
Remember at the Ray Clemence testimonial, Allen getting a load of stick and at one point Dicksy tried putting him in the stands.
A few seasons ago my spurs supporting mate was in the lounge at WHL and bumped into Paul Allen. He got on his phone and said my West Ham mate wants to talk to you. Paul Allen apparently gave a look of "oh no, here we go". I simply told him that Willie Young was a jock ****, to which he burst out laughing.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by Maidenhead72 »

RichieRiv wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 11:04 am A few seasons ago my spurs supporting mate was in the lounge at WHL and bumped into Paul Allen. He got on his phone and said my West Ham mate wants to talk to you. Paul Allen apparently gave a look of "oh no, here we go". I simply told him that Willie Young was a jock ****, to which he burst out laughing.
Brilliant :thup: . Met him at Euro 2016 and was a nice bloke. Was happy to chat with us about West Ham.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by Mega Ron »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:42 am Look forward, not back.
Word up JBB.

The past is done. f*** it.

For Ince as well. He regrets what happened, and anyway, he was a young man who made bad decisions.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by RichieRiv »

Well, I suppose that's an end to the "we won the ****ing world cup" chant and all those legends evenings.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by Doc H Ball »

PF. wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 9:06 am I thought it was only one game he played, up at Stoke in the 1-1 draw. But yeah, he didn’t leave the centre circle and made no attempt to play the game. It was also Macari’s first and the game of Kamara’s tackle that broke McAvennie's leg.

**** Paul Ince. Call me the ‘guv’nor’ - ****.

I agree that the Welsh dwarf probably played a role in Arnie, but I wouldn’t want him back. Clearly got a very limited idea of teamship.
What Ince did wearing the Man U shirt then standing in the centre circle at Stoke was the biggest f*** off by a player for us.

He knew exactly what he was doing, him and his career criminal agent and it cost the Club fortunes and made them one.

I think those of us who were there won’t ever forget that ****.

I think there was a second game - didn’t Bonzo kick him up the arse and tell him to get off the pitch?
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

Doc H Ball wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:49 pm What Ince did wearing the Man U shirt then standing in the centre circle at Stoke was the biggest **** off by a player for us.

He knew exactly what he was doing, him and his career criminal agent and it cost the Club fortunes and made them one.

I think those of us who were there won’t ever forget that ****.

I think there was a second game - didn’t Bonzo kick him up the arse and tell him to get off the pitch?
I thought there was second game too Doc. According to the West Ham 89-90m wikipedia page (which immediately mentions somethingI don't remember - us chanting "we hate Paul Ince" during the second game of the season - Bradford) he only played one league game which was Stoke. I'll never forget the atmosphere in that side terrace we had at the Victoria Ground that day. People who'd turned on hm arguing with those who still wanted to give him a break. It wasn't good.

Ince was scum to the tune of £1.2 million, the self-proclaimed 'guvnor' stuff, the endless articles about what c**** we are in the News of the the World, etc whenever we were about to play them, his **** agent, etc, etc, etc. Hated him for twenty years plus but he has mellowed in recent years and so I've mellowed towards him. Saying that I fully understand why others haven't.

Oh and as for Arnautovic. He can stay where he is.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by PF. »

Maidenhead72 wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:14 am Didn't Ince play our first home game of the 89-90 season?
No mate - Bradford at home, Slater with a brace. I did double check to be sure!



Our second... Bruno tearing through the middle, wide to Keen, Slater back stick. :crest: :scarfer:
Last edited by PF. on Sat Apr 18, 2020 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by Doc H Ball »

DaveWHU1964 wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 1:37 pm I thought there was second game too Doc.
Just checked this out and it looks like another lapse of my memory.

Bonzo had quit playing in '88 so I think I'm mistaking an earlier incident when he had a go at Ince.

Ince left on 14/9/89 after all that protracted Harley Street fake injury nonsense. We were robbed of a proper fee.

The record doesn't show him playing after Stoke. He played that entire game and Macari left him on to take all the abuse. I've never seen the like before or since. As you say it was a nasty atmosphere all round especially after Kamara.

Maybe he was sat on the subs bench for the next home game?
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by Mega Ron »

RichieRiv wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 12:31 pm Well, I suppose that's an end to the "we won the ****ing world cup" chant and all those legends evenings.
Deal.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by mrbluesky »

Personally I wouldn’t let Marko anywhere near this club. Call me old fashion but I still believe graft and team work will carry you further than individual flair and tantrums.

Marko was immense for us, as was Payet, but ultimately neither gave one flying feck for us despite the fact we would have worshipped them as gods the rest of their careers and paid them extremely well even in the context of the PL.

It was never enough for either of them.

They’d do the same to us in a heartbeat, if an even half decent club walked past them post-pub on a Saturday night and asked for one of their chips, they’d be up them faster than a rat up a drain pipe.

What an apt analogy.

I’d rather see us relegated with spirit, heart and endeavour than see us scrape survival and have a Marko shaped gun to our head every time he didn’t fancy a Tuesday night cup game or his brother lost the house on some scam or another.

Nothing but trouble.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by steveyrockstar »

We should have a thread on the ultimate "Judas's". It's interesting to hear people's memories of players leaving in acrimonious circumstances. The player I always felt most betrayed by was Bilic. I absolutely loved him as a kid, thought he was the nuts, but the way he first tried to engineer a move to Spurs after just one season, I found humiliating. Then he went to Everton who weren't much better than us at the time. I was gutted.

I also despised NRC at the time. He had an awful agent and had his head turned by the Arsenal interest, and the stuff he said in public made it very clear that he thought he was too good for us. Ultimately, his career never hit the heights he expected. Both Bilic and NRC have subsequently said they should have stayed with us for longer and it was the high point of their careers.

Defoe also was a petulant little tit.

Vaguely recall Cottee being widely booed when he returned with Everton, too.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by Het-Field »

I’ve always struggled to believe Ince learned from the debacle. This was a player who was sold by Alex Ferguson, when in his prime, to a European rival. I always felt Ferguson believed that his performance during 1994/1995 was sufficient to sell him. United ,lost Cantona for half a season, Hughes was injured for several weeks in January 1995, Schmeichael missed three months, and Giggs had lost form from the previous year. The foreign rule also nobbled United a bit. But Ince was practically an ever present, and he wasn’t able to hit the heights that he should have been capable of. Between that and Fergie’s view on his attitude, he was done with United. And what is rarely mentioned is that they flourished without him (even moreso without Cantona). Within four years of Ince leaving they did the double and the treble, and with Ince at Inter and Liverpool.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by the pink palermo »

Ince and to a lesser extent, Defoe - neither will ever be forgiven.Both behaved poorly on the way out the door.

Payet, Arnie - footnotes in our clubs history really, pint of bothered, but Arnie has made his bed, tough luck.

Cottee, Rio, Joey, Carrick - good luck to them, would always be welcome in my local.

Lampard Jnr ? We gt a decent enough fee but I could have done without his constant coating us off every 5 minutes after he went.

Without a doubt though, Ince was the worst behaved.Unforgiven.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by RichieRiv »

Defoe absolved himself of all sin with what he did for Bradley Lowery.

Ince can do one. He's a bottle job who refused to step up to the plate in Euro 96 despite being "the guv'nor". Anyone who gives themselves a nickname is a massive Sir Anthony Blunt.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by fmgod »

RichieRiv wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:12 pm Defoe absolved himself of all sin with what he did for Bradley Lowery.

Ince can do one. He's a bottle job who refused to step up to the plate in Euro 96 despite being "the guv'nor". Anyone who gives themselves a nickname is a massive Sir Anthony Blunt.
If you watch the Euro 96 documentary there is a few thinly veiled digs at him from fellows players, calling himself the guv'nor and letting a kid in Southgate taking a pen ahead of him
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by RichieRiv »

Not everyone can be wrong can they?

Ince is a back 2 front.
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Re: Marko Arnautovic

Post by stu1 »

Rio wrote: Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:56 am When Arnie & Payet played despite knowing they were going, there was effort and quality.
I’m not old enough to comment on Ince, but the lack of effort in some of Payet’s performances towards the end was absolutely criminal.
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