Declan Rice

[Hammer in Hornchurch]

Fantastic players for us, and I hope he stays for a few more seasons. I’m saying this without my C&B specs on, but would he get in the starting 11 of any of the ‘big six’ baring maybe Man Utd right now?
Somebody in the match thread mentioned he has a technical flaw in his shooting ability. I think that is true, he’s never gonna be a Frank Lampard type of player.
I’d like to see him stick to DM, where he does a great job of winning the ball.

[kenthammer1984]

Maybe he has started to believe his own hype?

Shocking penalty today.

[mumbles87]

Considering we constantly hear he is our best striker of a ball in training etc (which I've said a few times) I'm yet to see it on the pitch consistently

He has had a wonder strike which was brilliant against Watford but for a player of his ability he doesn't score or assist enough

That's 2 out of 3 pens for us missed now aswell

He needs to work on his finishing for sure

Not saying at all he isn't a good player but he isn't as good (yet) that he seems to think

[Aztec Hammer]

Go on then...

I was waiting for you

Nah, I have nothing really, we both established we have opposing viewpoints when it comes to the bulk of opinion expressed in your post above. No harm in that if you think he's a knob and not as good as people say, but I don't think that's the case.

It was just that line about never seeing him take a game by the scruff of the neck. I can't figure out how anyone could have that opinion having watched his career with us so far!

[HammerAl]

Fantastic players for us, and I hope he stays for a few more seasons. I’m saying this without my C&B specs on, but would he get in the starting 11 of any of the ‘big six’ baring maybe Man Utd right now?
Somebody in the match thread mentioned he has a technical flaw in his shooting ability. I think that is true, he’s never gonna be a Frank Lampard type of player.
I’d like to see him stick to DM, where he does a great job of winning the ball.

He’d start for Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea. He would also be a better option for City than Phillips.

He’s never going to be a free-scoring midfielder like Lampard - that’s just not his game. But Lampard couldn’t tackle, intercept and run with the ball like Rice does from deep - different roles need different skillsets.

[ironilunga]

This is an emotional bad loser moan:

Why does Declan Rice want to be all things to this team and why is that indulged!!

He is an excellent defensive midfielder, really really good! Is he a world class box to box midfielder? - no. Should this be encouraged at the expense of the team? - no. Should he be on pens because he happens to be our best player and Captain - no.

Great, brilliant DM, but it’s a team game.

[Hammer in Hornchurch]

He’d start for Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea. He would also be a better option for City than Phillips.

He’s never going to be a free-scoring midfielder like Lampard - that’s just not his game. But Lampard couldn’t tackle, intercept and run with the ball like Rice does from deep - different roles need different skillsets.

Who would he displace in those teams as a DM?

[mumbles87]

Nah, I have nothing really, we both established we have opposing viewpoints when it comes to the bulk of opinion expressed in your post above. No harm in that if you think he's a knob and not as good as people say, but I don't think that's the case.

It was just that line about never seeing him take a game by the scruff of the neck. I can't figure out how anyone could have that opinion having watched his career with us so far!

Watch him on tube and ang golf life videos .. other days one

He said himself Captain he not used to ATM people coming to him to sort all kinds of stuff . Last year he had mark around to do it

Tbh maybe someone else should be club captain with him captain on pitch who knows

However him jumping on top a buggy doing the Spiderman did make him look a bit of a knob tbh ..

[Aztec Hammer]

This is an emotional bad loser moan:

Why does Declan Rice want to be all things to this team and why is that indulged!!

He is an excellent defensive midfielder, really really good! Is he a world class box to box midfielder? - no. Should this be encouraged at the expense of the team? - no. Should he be on pens because he happens to be our best player and Captain - no.

Great, brilliant DM, but it’s a team game.

Problem is, if he isn't the one to go box-to-box and carry the ball up the pitch, who is? Because it's not Soucek, and this time, unlike 2020/21, we don't have a Lingard who can do that and allow Soucek to do his big man in the box routine.

We need a footballer alongside Rice in the middle if the wish is for Rice to sit in DM. Because right now the team ain't doing jack if he isn't carrying the ball for us.

[HammerAl]

Who would he displace in those teams as a DM?

He’s better than Henderson. I also think he’s got more to his game that Fabinho.

He’s better than Spurs’ and Arsenal’s two holding midfielders.

And he’s better than Jorginho and Kovacic, and had age/fitness on his side over Kante.

I just think it’s great we have such a good player.

[HammerAl]

This is an emotional bad loser moan:

Why does Declan Rice want to be all things to this team and why is that indulged!!

He is an excellent defensive midfielder, really really good! Is he a world class box to box midfielder? - no. Should this be encouraged at the expense of the team? - no. Should he be on pens because he happens to be our best player and Captain - no.

Great, brilliant DM, but it’s a team game.

The whole “box-to-box” thing is a bit of a myth. There aren’t really many box-to-box midfielders out there anymore. Most midfields are broken down into different roles now. Players like Gerrard and Vieira were the above type of player, who can defend on the edge of their box and attack on the edge of the opposition’s box, with plenty of running in between, but that role has been phased out of the game slightly, where possession and having three players flooding the midfield seemingly being more important.

I imagine he’ll be taken off pens now (I’m surprised Benny didn’t take it today) but I also don’t think he’s being encouraged to do anything at the detriment of the team - today was just one of those days.

[Hammer in Hornchurch]

He’s better than Henderson. I also think he’s got more to his game that Fabinho.

He’s better than Spurs’ and Arsenal’s two holding midfielders.

And he’s better than Jorginho and Kovacic, and had age/fitness on his side over Kante.

I just think it’s great we have such a good player.

The elusive AM is the key for us. Someone comfortable on the ball, not brushed aside easily, who has an eye for that killer pass. That also gets the best out of Rice and Soucek.

[StevePottsGoalsReel]

I think he is mate. He’s our driving force in the middle of the park. Certain players will win more games in terms of scoring or assisting, but he’s the glue that holds the team together. He raises the standards of those around him and if we were to take any one player out of our starting XI, he’d be our biggest loss.

I wasn’t meaning to sound sh*tty or patronising at all with my previous comment, I just think it’s a bit of a natural reaction to help soften the blow (just like if any of us miss out on something, then, ‘it wasn’t even that good’ or ‘I didn’t want it anyway’).

I love him and love watching him play for West Ham and he will be a bigger loss when he eventually goes than many realise. The club will go on, for sure, but he is a generational talent and such a likeable bloke as well, which very much like Nobes, endears him to the fans.

Completely fair points.

I think he's brilliant, I just think he's been out of form and over-worked for much of the past six months (he's certainly not the only one!).

In terms of influence, he's still a young lad, but if he's not happy being a Makelele and wants to be an all-action box-to-box midfielder, then who are his benchmarks in the Premier League? Keane, Vieira, Gerrard, Yaya Toure? In my opinion, he still needs to add much more to his game if he wants to influence matches along those lines.

[Pete647580]

We need a footballer alongside Rice in the middle if the wish is for Rice to sit in DM. Because right now the team ain't doing jack if he isn't carrying the ball for us.

I've always seen Rice as a brilliant spoiler of opposition attacks. What we need though is a brilliant creator he can give the ball to every time he wins it.

I can imagine Brian Clough saying to Rice: 'win the ball, give it to X. That's all I need you to do'. And Clough would have signed an X.

[HammerAl]

The elusive AM is the key for us. Someone comfortable on the ball, not brushed aside easily, who has an eye for that killer pass. That also gets the best out of Rice and Soucek.

Agreed - if we had a player who gets between the lines, takes the ball in tight spaces and links the midfield to attack, we’d be in a much, much better place.

I also think we need a “proper” DM next to Rice.

A midfield of something LIKE…

DM: Sangare (sitting, mopping up and recycling the ball)
CM: Rice (intercepting, tackling and breaking forward with the ball)
AM: Paqueta (linking the play, adding flair and breaking lines)

…it would be brilliant.

I know we won’t get those two players now, but players like them would transform our team.

[Aztec Hammer]

I've always seen Rice as a brilliant spoiler of opposition attacks. What we need though is a brilliant creator he can give the ball to every time he wins it.

I can imagine Brian Clough saying to Rice: 'win the ball, give it to X. That's all I need you to do'. And Clough would have signed an X.

This is basically what should happen, but with also allowing Rice to do those breaks and carries he does in transition from the DM position. Not many around who can carry the ball in transition like he can.

Instead, what is happening is that he gets it, doesn't really have anyone to give it to, and also can't rely on his midfield partner to recycle the ball, find him, use it well, carry it or create with a pass. The most reliable thing about Soucek at the moment is that he will be out of position or late to the play, or wandering up the pitch in the hopes of being able to impact the game in the box.

This is a huge problem, as it pulls Rice out of the game that most people want him to play. And besides just making his job that much harder, forces him to do more of the things that he isn't special at.

We need a passer and creator who can use the ball well in there alongside Rice. That's the only way that Rice will be able to be the DM people want and us be an effective team.

[ironilunga]

We need a footballer alongside Rice in the middle if the wish is for Rice to sit in DM. Because right now the team ain't doing jack if he isn't carrying the ball for us.

Despite his willingness to be this for us he is simply not good enough at it.

From his brief cameo against Villa I can utterly understand why we were in for Onana. He is explosive going forwards and will be a big hit.

[Aztec Hammer]

Despite his willingness to be this for us he is simply not good enough at it.

This is the point. Something has to change. Because in our current construction, we don't have the balance in central midfield to allow us to be effective. At least not at the level the fanbase supposedly requires now.

He is only having to do these things for us that isn't ideal because we don't have any alternatives that can progress the ball for us from defence to attack.

Unless we are willing to go back to Allardyce-ball.

[HammerAl]

I don’t think Rice really trusts his teammates. I know if I was playing, I wouldn’t be drilling balls into the feet of Antonio, Fornals, Benrahma, Soucek etc, as I wouldn’t be confident in them retaining or doing anything useful with the ball.

That might change with Scamacca and Cornet coming into the team, but if he had a no.10 to link up with, and a DM behind him to give him a bit extra freedom, it would be beneficial to him and the midfield.

[fjthegrey]

Rice could be Kante.

A superb ball winner all over the pitch who carries the ball well and is neat and tidy in possession, utterly destructive off it.

Kante usually plays with either Jorginho or Kovacic next time him. Spectacularly good ball players who are not particularly adept at winning the ball outright, but good at picking up scraps off other people's hard work. 2nd ball winners.

This should be our blueprint if we want to get the most out of Rice and our team in general.

The days of the Steven Gerrard all action midfielder who gets 20+ goal involvements a season as well as top level defensive stats are basically finished. You're either an attacking midfielder or a defensive midfielder in the modern game. Nobody has the legs to do it all anymore, the game is simply too fast and too high a standard in this country for that player to flourish anymore.