Declan Rice

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Crouchend_Hammer
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Doc H Ball wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:04 am I'd love him to stay until the end of his contract then go on a free. It's not our money after all.
Whilst there is some merit in that, it would mean far less money available for improving the team/squad once he has gone

Also, not a sensible approach if Rice wants to leave as it will just mean he is pissed off and it will sour the relationship - no point hanging on to a demotivated and pissed off player
hammerman11
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by hammerman11 »

rice will go i the summer as he will not want us relegated and he may be able to provide us with the ECL trophy as way of a parting gift. if he leaves in january we are in big relegation trouble which will affect our ECL chances.

liverpool man utd chelsea real madrid the 4 I reckon will go for him. sell in the summer 23 and hope for a bidding war !
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Billydinho
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Billydinho »

We should aim to get Djibril Sow to replace him.
hammerman11
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by hammerman11 »

connor gallagher if he goes to the blue scum or mctominay if he goes red scum

simples
El brooko79
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by El brooko79 »

YorksHammer wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:20 am Sell him in January if we're going to, in my opinion. Might be earlier than planned/ideal, but there's a lot of factors that suggest this will be the best time to sell:

1. Straight after the World Cup, his profile will have been raised globally by what I assume are multiple appearances for England. His value is going to be at it's highest to buyers,
If we sold him now:

1) We need a replacement. They will cost more in January and clubs no we are desperate so any additional money we make from his sale is just used up.

2) Clubs spend less in January as have full squads, so less demand and likely less value.

3) If we have a bad start in January, we are in a relegation fight without our best player.

4) Selling him now makes us less attractive to other players.

5) I have little or know faith in us getting a suitable replacement in January, even if we do likley right at the end then they have to settle.

The decision needs to be made without emotion and what is best for the club.
I'm unhappy with the interview. Not because it says he might leave (I know he will) but think it's a terrible message from a captain you expect to lead the squad into battle.

But we need him this season.
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Diogenes
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Diogenes »

Crouchend_Hammer wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:25 am Whilst there is some merit in that, it would mean far less money available for improving the team/squad once he has gone

Also, not a sensible approach if Rice wants to leave as it will just mean he is pissed off and it will sour the relationship - no point hanging on to a demotivated and pissed off player
I agree with the sentiment, however I dont believe Rice is either pissed off or demotivated (or even will be).

I have no problem at all in Rice leaving or wanting to improve his opportunities. There is no such thing as loyalty in football, never has been. There was just less money involved in the past, but when enough was offered players moved on.
YorksHammer
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by YorksHammer »

hammerman11 wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:28 am connor gallagher if he goes to the blue scum
I'd rather we let Rice go for nothing than have that useless kid in our team.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by YorksHammer »

El brooko79 wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:29 am But we need him this season.
I don't really care about the interview, and I'm not saying this because of the interview. The truth is once he enters the last 12 months of his contract, and clubs have the knowledge that he won't sign a new one so we won't risk keeping a disgruntled player in the summer of 2024 by enforcing the extension, his market value drops hugely.

It's not worth keeping him but his value degrading by £20m (say) between January and June. That £20m in itself could fund a replacement.

I think it's pointless keeping him if an offer that matches our valuation comes in in January. Obviously if it doesn't, then keep him, and I'm not suggesting we hawk him to potential buyers. But if we have an asking price of £100m and Manchester United come in and say '£70m and McTominay', that's a reasonable offer given the probably market value of the latter. If Chelsea come in offering £110m and Broja, that's a reasonable offer given the utterly useless nature of the latter.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Colours never run »

If England do the unthinkable and manage to contain Mbappe and beat France, Rice's valuation will go up even higher. He'll be detailed to follow Mbappe like a hawk and if he can stifle his game to the detriment of him and France, then he'll be proving himself as 1 of the very best Defensive Midfielders in the world to reach his 2nd Semi Final in as many years.

I truly believe he's capable of it but he'll have to be at his absolute best to do so. One thing about Rice's game that's so impressive I find, is tracking players before cleanly nicking the ball away before moving it quickly off to 1 of ours. He does that, then his price tag and reputation will go up significantly.

This is Mbappe though, who usually has all the answers thrown at him trying to stop him..

Have the game of your life, Dec.
El brooko79
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by El brooko79 »

Colours never run wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:15 pm If England do the unthinkable and manage to contain Mbappe and beat France, Rice's valuation will go up even higher. He'll be detailed to follow Mbappe like a hawk and if he can stifle his game to the detriment of him and France, then he'll be proving himself as 1 of the very best Defensive Midfielders in the world to reach his 2nd Semi Final in as many years.
Southgate won't want Rice following Mbappe about and leaving a gap in CM. He is literally the fulcrum of England's shape.

Rice will be closer to Griezmann. Walker will be on Mbappe for most of the game.
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MB
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by MB »

My main reason for not selling in January is that it sends the message the season is a write off and I don't think it should be yet.

Whatever we'd gain in terms of value would be lost on any signings we make anyway.

I'm fairly sure he is going in the summer and at least that gives us time to plan.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by westlondonhammer »

While I wouldn't advocate Rice's sale now... it doesn't feel the right time and is another thing to try to get right... I do feel Soucek could do his role. He has energy, strength, strong in the tackle, gives us the height dynamic in the middle. Restrict his passing (i.e., give it to Paqueta, Aguerd, Kehrer, Cresswell) when you get it and let them do with it what they have so he just keeps it simple and I think he'd be a viable option in the middle just sitting.

Downes as back up

But that said... it shouldn't be a consideration until the season is done!
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Colours never run »

El brooko79 wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:22 pm Southgate won't want Rice following Mbappe about and leaving a gap in CM. He is literally the fulcrum of England's shape.

Rice will be closer to Griezmann. Walker will be on Mbappe for most of the game.
Not if we play 2 holding midfielders in Rice and Henderson beside him. Rice I'd expect to be patrolling the right side of the pitch following Mbappe around like a bad smell doubling up a lot of the time with Walker. Walker on his own will not be able to deal with Mbappe all game, he'll need regular help from someone like Rice because he's that good and then we have a chance. Henderson will probably be detailed to patrol everything else, with the help of others of course, that France throws at us monitoring the likes of Griezmann, Dembele, Giroud. That's how I see it panning out and what I'd also like to see us do.

Mbappe will not like the thought of both Rice and Walker on his case and it'll need that level of quality to possibly keep him at bay, or enough to nick a win/get us to penalties.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by I am Legend »

Rice isn't going anywhere in January or summer I'd imagine. Why would we sell him? No amount of money will replace him. We'll be watching him win things for a decade while we spend that time wishing we had a player that good.

No chance we sell generational talent to London rival like Chelsea again. Unless you want to sell the club and go in to hiding.

He's happy here at the moment. We need a new manager who can handle higher quality players asap, that is the only way he stays his contract imo.
1895Hammer
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by 1895Hammer »

Can’t see Rice going in January unless we see a stupendous offer, well above £100m would be needed to justify any such decision. Think it’ll be the much mooted “ gentleman’s agreement” and he’ll go in the summer, but like it or not Bellingham is fast becoming the prime target for the big boys, so let’s see if one of the clubs missing out on him is then prepared to cough up £100m for Rice. Hopefully we have clarity on the ownership by then too, you’d have to worry about GSB telling us a deal swapping Oxlade -Chamberlain, Phillips and £50m repaying last summers alleged overspend is a good deal. Actually I hope we say no interest in any part exchange, it’s cash only, but what do we do if £60-70m is top bid with that contract running down ?
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Gsbgsb »

westlondonhammer wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:26 pm While I wouldn't advocate Rice's sale now... it doesn't feel the right time and is another thing to try to get right... I do feel Soucek could do his role. He has energy, strength, strong in the tackle, gives us the height dynamic in the middle. Restrict his passing (i.e., give it to Paqueta, Aguerd, Kehrer, Cresswell) when you get it and let them do with it what they have so he just keeps it simple and I think he'd be a viable option in the middle just sitting.

Downes as back up

But that said... it shouldn't be a consideration until the season is done!
I do not think Soucek could do the “Rice role” as a 6 and I have similar fears about Downes at this stage of his career.

Both are likely fine at the get it and give a simple pass element but that inevitably slows play down, it might be what is required 80% of the time but there are occasions when the CB or 6 needs to play an accurate longish forward pass (presuming we ever get runners willing to break the line) and I am far from convinced that either Soucek or Downes has this in them. Win it give it short makes us predictable and leads to easy triggers for the opposition to press on.

We have resembled England v USA and the first 30 minutes last night for too long because we lack proper offensive movement not because we do not win the ball high enough etc. When Senegal had to worry about us going quick and in behind their press from Kane and the midfield dropped and England could then have the option of playing through them as well. To do this you need a quality deep lying long passer and Rice is by far the best we have at this.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Gsbgsb »

I am Legend wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:03 pm Rice isn't going anywhere in January or summer I'd imagine. Why would we sell him? No amount of money will replace him. We'll be watching him win things for a decade while we spend that time wishing we had a player that good.

No chance we sell generational talent to London rival like Chelsea again. Unless you want to sell the club and go in to hiding.

He's happy here at the moment. We need a new manager who can handle higher quality players asap, that is the only way he stays his contract imo.
Rice does not stay for the length of his contract and then walk on a free, no business of our size can wave goodbye to likely between 30-60% of its annual turnover depending if he goes this summer or next.

There might be a valid argument that you keep him the additional year for what he might help the club achieve but then he goes.

People speak of how to replace him when there is talk of being able to invest say £90-£100m from his sale into the squad. How do you replace him when you have £0 to invest as he walks on a free?
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Pob!
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Pob! »

I am Legend wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 3:03 pm Rice isn't going anywhere in January or summer I'd imagine. Why would we sell him? No amount of money will replace him. We'll be watching him win things for a decade while we spend that time wishing we had a player that good.
Fella I hate to be that guy but Rice is moving on if not January almost certainly in the summer..
Time to take the rose tinted glasses off..
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by StevePottsGoalsReel »

Billydinho wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 9:26 am We should aim to get Djibril Sow to replace him.
We'll probably do our usual trick of offering way under the asking price and make a pig's ear out of the Sow purse.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by El brooko79 »

Pob! wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 4:27 pm Fella I hate to be that guy but Rice is moving on if not January almost certainly in the summer..
Time to take the rose tinted glasses off..
I guess you are off the local orphanage tonight to tell them Father Christmas isn't real?
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