Declan Rice

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bonzosbeard
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by bonzosbeard »

If we want to be a big club we need to start having a big club mentality.

Once we know a player will not sign an extension he goes at the first opportunity. No matter how good he is or how much we like him. Ferguson never went on with players not committed, and Rice is not committed if not signing. That is not the same as not trying.

You could argue playing him as captain this year under these circumstances hasnt helped us. We're hardly pulling up trees so what difference would it have made to sell him last year or in January.

Just my opinion but I think this should go down in the lessons learned book.

And yes I love Rice and wish he was staying but its an open secret he's not and that's the problem.
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Aztec Hammer
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Aztec Hammer »

bonzosbeard wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:47 am If we want to be a big club we need to start having a big club mentality.

Once we know a player will not sign an extension he goes at the first opportunity. No matter how good he is or how much we like him. Ferguson never went on with players not committed, and Rice is not committed if not signing. That is not the same as not trying.

You could argue playing him as captain this year under these circumstances hasnt helped us. We're hardly pulling up trees so what difference would it have made to sell him last year or in January.

Just my opinion but I think this should go down in the lessons learned book.

And yes I love Rice and wish he was staying but its an open secret he's not and that's the problem.
He wasn't signing an extension from basically the moment he signed his original deal.

If we sold him even two or three years ago when it was just as apparent he was in 'wait and see how things develop' mode, well, we would have had no Europe either season, good chance of already being relegated in my opinion.

If we sold him even last summer or in January, we would be 20th. Like you say, we're hardly pulling up trees as it is, and yet he is so clearly our best player. We'd be absolutely pitiful without him and relegation would be a formality.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by kentboleyn »

He was very good last night against Italy,especially in the firsr half.MOTM?
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by irving boleyn »

Yes, a decent philosophy if it’s the 12th superstar in the squad who’s not getting a regular game.
Different if it’s yr main man.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by bonzosbeard »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:53 am He wasn't signing an extension from basically the moment he signed his original deal.

If we sold him even two or three years ago when it was just as apparent he was in 'wait and see how things develop' mode, well, we would have had no Europe either season, good chance of already being relegated in my opinion.

If we sold him even last summer or in January, we would be 20th. Like you say, we're hardly pulling up trees as it is, and yet he is so clearly our best player. We'd be absolutely pitiful without him and relegation would be a formality.
I think it became fully clear the 'one more year' situation at beginning of the season and that's when he had to go in my opinion.

I value your opinion by the way and you may be right, or I might be. We won't know.

What we can agree on is that when he was at his best over the last three seasons he's been wonderful to watch. I wish he wanted to stay.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by sutts07 »

bonzosbeard wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 8:47 am If we want to be a big club we need to start having a big club mentality.
Once we know a player will not sign an extension he goes at the first opportunity.
It isn't that simple this day in age sadly. Had someone come to us and said here's 150m we want him now... I'm sure we'd have sold.
Same for Kane at Tottenham. Lot's of people looking, but none of them buying.

Rice still has plenty of time left on his contract and to my knowledge, was more than happy to have one more season with us. It does now feel like we are holding him back, and that is the time to call it.

Assuming (I don't know why I'd assume this) we get a good price for him in the summer, I actually think we have played this one just about right.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by YorksHammer »

I actually think we could be just fine - not 'good' but 'fine' - with a midfield trio of Downes holding behind Paqueta and Soucek.

My ideal currently is Downes behind Paqueta and Rice. And I think that would be better than the above three, for sure. But I don't see the first three as enormously weak - or weaker - for us than what we currently play.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Aztec Hammer »

bonzosbeard wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:10 am I think it became fully clear the 'one more year' situation at beginning of the season and that's when he had to go in my opinion.

I value your opinion by the way and you may be right, or I might be. We won't know.

What we can agree on is that when he was at his best over the last three seasons he's been wonderful to watch. I wish he wanted to stay.
Absolutely Bonzo (was my dog’s name, and being a Yorkie he had a little beard too so I always enjoy seeing your username) :grin:

It is a real shame that he values titles and Champions League over doing a full career with West Ham and entering the pantheon of our all-time legends.

And an even bigger shame that we couldn’t and can’t offer him the former things ourselves.

I guess that’s football though. Nobody stays at one club for their whole career if it’s a normal side and they have the ability to play for things.

It will be a shame if he leaves the club in a bad way like most of those who were in similar circumstances. Not that it matters too much either way I suppose - once he goes he’s someone else’s player and will no doubt win and be remembered with them regardless.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Aztec Hammer »

YorksHammer wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:19 am I actually think we could be just fine - not 'good' but 'fine' - with a midfield trio of Downes holding behind Paqueta and Soucek.

My ideal currently is Downes behind Paqueta and Rice. And I think that would be better than the above three, for sure. But I don't see the first three as enormously weak - or weaker - for us than what we currently play.
I don’t see anything in Flynn that suggests he is good enough for the level we require unfortunately.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by sutts07 »

Feels as though it could go one way or the other with Soucek and Paqueta.
Both are obviously decent players who play a main role for their national teams, maybe they will be able to step out of the shadow a little bit.

I'd assume we'd also be in the market for another player to compete for a place in there. Maybe a Ward-Prowse or Kalvin Phillips. We came close to getting JWP from Southampton last summer by all accounts. Other than Newcastle (maybe Tottenham), I don't see anyone else really being that interested in them.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by JohnnyLyall »

YorksHammer wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:19 am I actually think we could be just fine - not 'good' but 'fine' - with a midfield trio of Downes holding behind Paqueta and Soucek.

My ideal currently is Downes behind Paqueta and Rice. And I think that would be better than the above three, for sure. But I don't see the first three as enormously weak - or weaker - for us than what we currently play.
Downes will be good as an orthodox holding midfielder I agree, Soucek... Not for me.. If we stay up and he's a first team regular can only mean we'll be in trouble next season because it will mean Moyes is still here
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by hammerman11 »

we will need to replace dec with better than downes |! phillips is being mooted and I would prefer him to gallagher. has more quality on the ball and not so frantic in his play. maybe we get gallagher and philips to join paqman in our midfield three ?

rice last night was the best player on the pitch and shut souness and co up with a nice goal. he will score many more goals when he joins a better team than us.

such a shame that we have totally messed up this season. I thought we would be top 8 and doing well in europe with a chance of keeping Dec .

just like our dreams -----

anyway I hope dec signs off with the ECL cup and we finish a nice 12th.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by OFT »

hammerman11 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:28 am |! phillips is being mooted and I would prefer him
Injury prone?
I think at around 65 mins last night it was pointed out that was more time than he'd spent on the pitch in the league so far this season. Now I accept that he's at Manchester City who have 'options' all over the pitch, but it's a NO from me
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Aztec Hammer »

Win the Conference and he might as well stay on another year for the Europa.

Just extend the deal by a year with a salary similar to what he’d get if he moved, and slap a release fee in there that adds security for both sides should we go back to our usual rubbish by the end of 2023/24.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by sutts07 »

I'd take Ward-Prowse and Phillips for Rice if we could get both with the money raised from selling. Slight question around Philips desire now that he has effectively been at the top level with man City, not sure how hungry he'd be for us at West Ham.

It is always going to hurt losing an academy kid who has grown to be one of the best in the world for his position, but fact of the matter is, he is going to move on so we need to think about how best to replace him. You can't really do that with one player (unless you get insanely lucky like Leicester did with Kante).
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by hammerman11 »

If we get EL for next season and end on a high in the league then who knows. we still have the option to extend his contract by another 2 years so it would take us to 2026. noit sure rice would be happy on that but maybe he will give us another year especially if chelsea are out of europe or only in the ECL which he had just won with us !

personally I think he is off to arsenal who will have CL to offer and a settled side. he replaces one of partey or granit chaka or whatever his name is !

we can but hope
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by hammers92 »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:32 am Win the Conference and he might as well stay on another year for the Europa.

Just extend the deal by a year with a salary similar to what he’d get if he moved, and slap a release fee in there that adds security for both sides should we go back to our usual rubbish by the end of 2023/24.
He won’t accept a release clause because the figure the club want to insert into it is too high.

What happened with Kane is on his mind, he doesn’t want to price himself out of a possible move someday.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by Aztec Hammer »

sutts07 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:37 am I'd take Ward-Prowse and Phillips for Rice if we could get both with the money raised from selling. Slight question around Philips desire now that he has effectively been at the top level with man City, not sure how hungry he'd be for us at West Ham.

It is always going to hurt losing an academy kid who has grown to be one of the best in the world for his position, but fact of the matter is, he is going to move on so we need to think about how best to replace him. You can't really do that with one player (unless you get insanely lucky like Leicester did with Kante).
It really was a shocking football move by Phillips.

He was never good enough for Man City. He was loved at Leeds. Should have just stayed there.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by sutts07 »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:32 am Win the Conference and he might as well stay on another year for the Europa.

Just extend the deal by a year with a salary similar to what he’d get if he moved, and slap a release fee in there that adds security for both sides should we go back to our usual rubbish by the end of 2023/24.
Honestly don't see it. I think he is done with us and lifting a trophy in June would be his ultimate send off.
There is a small outside chance that Kretinsky takes over and convinces him to stay for year one of the post Sullivan era... but I highly doubt it.
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Re: Declan Rice

Post by sutts07 »

Aztec Hammer wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 9:39 am It really was a shocking football move by Phillips.

He was never good enough for Man City. He was loved at Leeds. Should have just stayed there.
Yeah, totally agree. Was only ever going to be a bit part player in that squad. I can see him going to Newcastle for stupid money. Which might actually help us. If Philips is worth X, then Rice is worth XYZ..!
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