Declan Rice

[floydie_hammer]

It's not impossible that later this season we'll make an improved contract offer/convince him of longer term plans and get a years contract extension out of him. Unlikely perhaps, but not impossible so let's just enjoy him being at the world cup and see how the rest of the season goes

[hammerman11]

Just hope he goes to RM to replace modric

[mumbles87]

As we all know he will be off sooner or later

Can we now draw a line under the keep rice tactics and do what's best for the team.

Right Declan you stay back and protect the back 4

I know you get bored and want to be prime Gerrard but your one of best at sitting and breaking up play

Thomas get those runs into the box back

[MB]

It's not impossible that later this season we'll make an improved contract offer/convince him of longer term plans and get a years contract extension out of him. Unlikely perhaps, but not impossible so let's just enjoy him being at the world cup and see how the rest of the season goes

Doubt that happens without a release clause being inserted. I’m sure everyone has learned from the Kane situation.

I do agree with the second part though. What will be will be so sit back, relax and enjoy what you can when you can.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

As we all know he will be off sooner or later

Can we now draw a line under the keep rice tactics and do what's best for the team.

Right Declan you stay back and protect the back 4

I know you get bored and want to be prime Gerrard but your one of best at sitting and breaking up play

Thomas get those runs into the box back

That way of playing isn't coming back. Every club in the division can defend against it now
It doesn't work any more
we need to be better with the ball and pass the ball through the lines, not rely on Soucek getting on the end of some knock downs

[WCpete]

It's not impossible that later this season we'll make an improved contract offer/convince him of longer term plans and get a years contract extension out of him. Unlikely perhaps, but not impossible so let's just enjoy him being at the world cup and see how the rest of the season goes

He wants silverware not money. We aren’t going to be improving the side to the level he wants quickly enough to satisfy his wants. To do it quickly we’d have to double or triple our spend from last summer and find a top tier Ancellotti type manager in the span of a few months. Not happening. And tbh, as much as I love Declan, you don’t put your club into an existential gamble just to appease him. He’s excellent, but he’s not ‘spend a half a billion to surround with quality’ excellent.

[Pob!]

I guess you are off the local orphanage tonight to tell them Father Christmas isn't real?

Yep! Then I'm off to the local food bank to tell them not to give any food to fatties or drunks!

[hammer1975]

If the worst came to the worst and he left in January as there was a big bid from a club he wanted to join.....would making Soucek the dedicated defensive mid (given his stats) and having Paqueta and someone like Paqueta (someone more like an 8 - perhaps JWP) give everyone the change in style and team shape that they desire?

[Doc H Ball]

No. We’d be far worse without him, whatever.

He’s carried us.

[Wilko1304]

If the worst came to the worst and he left in January as there was a big bid from a club he wanted to join.....would making Soucek the dedicated defensive mid (given his stats) and having Paqueta and someone like Paqueta (someone more like an 8 - perhaps JWP) give everyone the change in style and team shape that they desire?

I think it's possible, but I suspect not likely. Would rely on him being the man to recycle the ball when it comes out, and that probably isn't something he'll excel at. There's ways to use Tommy very effectively, but I think you have to use his mobility and tackling rather than think of him passing.

[hammer1975]

I think it's possible, but I suspect not likely. Would rely on him being the man to recycle the ball when it comes out, and that probably isn't something he'll excel at. There's ways to use Tommy very effectively, but I think you have to use his mobility and tackling rather than think of him passing.

Quite. But, realistically, Soucek doesn't 'fit' with the style we would need to build around Paqueta (and Scamacca) ultimately? Am I reading that as the common view?

So, in essence, Rice going needs to fund two 'starting midfielders'? as well as funding an actual replacement for Cresswell before he hits the old people's home, and a pacey striker to replace Antonio?

assuming we've not spent the money already....

[I am Legend]

People speak of how to replace him when there is talk of being able to invest say £90-£100m from his sale into the squad. How do you replace him when you have £0 to invest as he walks on a free?

Like we replaced Rio? Carrick? Joe Cole? Glen Johnson? Lampard? Defoe? Parker? We never replaced any, even when spending lots of money, even the money made selling them. We will not be able to replace him for 50m or even 90m. He is generational.

Ask every manager in the world

"Do you want one of the best CM in the world for 2 years or 80m?"

I think we all know how most would answer.

[I am Legend]

Fella I hate to be that guy but Rice is moving on if not January almost certainly in the summer..
Time to take the rose tinted glasses off..

I see you've been worn down by the media and social media. Its ok, its to be expected.

Makes no sense at all to sell one of the best CM in the world. No amount of cash will be worth losing him. 2 years of him playing will be worth more than any amount of money we can spend on replacement.

Obviously if he demands a move, then things change, but he seems very happy. So for now I expect him to stay.

[Pob!]

I see you've been worn down by the media and social media. Its ok, its to be expected.

Makes no sense at all to sell one of the best CM in the world. No amount of cash will be worth losing him. 2 years of him playing will be worth more than any amount of money we can spend on replacement.

Obviously if he demands a move, then things change, but he seems very happy. So for now I expect him to stay.

I'm in my 50s not teens I don't do any social media .. He will leave at peak value, after a good world cup and while there is some value left in his contract.
That is this summer. He's made it clear in no uncertain terms he wants to move on to bigger things.

[Wilko1304]

Quite. But, realistically, Soucek doesn't 'fit' with the style we would need to build around Paqueta (and Scamacca) ultimately? Am I reading that as the common view?

So, in essence, Rice going needs to fund two 'starting midfielders'? as well as funding an actual replacement for Cresswell before he hits the old people's home, and a pacey striker to replace Antonio?

assuming we've not spent the money already....

I am not as critical on Soucek as some, so that has to be taken into account with my opinion, but I don't think he is unable to play in a Paqueta/Scamacca team.

Jack has been going on and on during the World Cup about how France play a midfield and how they rotate to make different shapes in attack and in defence. Soucek would work in that system, as he's shown me anyway, because you recycle him to not be around the main build, but do dirty work defensively, be that extra centre back type, but roam forward and be a physical final third presence (and not just "arrive in the box" but defending in those areas, too).

I do think a lot of it can also be attributed to bad form, but I am not sure now that I believe it'll work as a deep two in there, not at least until we make improvements in other areas.

[hammer1975]

I do think a lot of it can also be attributed to bad form, but I am not sure now that I believe it'll work as a deep two in there, not at least until we make improvements in other areas.

Dunno mate, I was in the 'wish people would stop criticising Soucek' camp until recently as I felt he was unfairly being picked on whilst he was still doing a lot of defensive work and his form would pick up. However, it's now increasingly looking like a perfect storm of Soucek having a purple patch when he first joined, and him fitting our tactics perfectly at the time. As we're looking to move away from that style (which is not without risk) it's looking more and more to me that he doesn't 'fit' with the road we've started to go down. No fault of his own.

Why is that relevant here on a Rice thread- it wouldn't normally be. but the situation with Rice means that we're forced into the undesirable position of fixing both centre midfield berths at the same time (almost). That may turn out to be a blessing if we can happen on a Paqueta-Guimares-Thiago Mendes type combo in the middle (three combative, same wavelength, skilful ball players) but, again, it has a lot of risk (not least because of the other areas of the pitch that you are indicating also need spend).

I continually come back to a feeling that it won't get better until we chuck 'more change' at it and if we decide to stop halfway because we've suddenly lost belief in the manager then we may be creating a self-fulfilling situation.

Not meaning to open a Moyes debate (or defend him) on a Rice thread - but the amount of money that will flow into the club from his eventual departure forces us to have a view on what style we want to build to try and compensate for his loss.

Hopefully some of that makes sense!

[Colours never run]

As much as I'm definitely for keeping him for another season, I certainly wouldn't run the risk of losing him for nothing come the end of his current contract (once the 1 year extension is triggered) just for the sake of squeezing 1 more season out of him leaving us with £0. The summer before his final year us up is the time to part company if I had it my way, so we effectively enjoyed the 1st part of his career with us, get in the huge fee he'd still command, then move on amicably. Not let him go for nothing and risk pissing him off in the process as I could see him eventually being an unhappy player staying 1 season too long in his eyes. Sell him the summer after this one would be my preferred choice.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

IMHO He is almost certainly going at the end of the season and good luck to him. He deserves it tbf

The chances of him going in January are very small indeed

[Bond Holder 59]

IMHO He is almost certainly going at the end of the season and good luck to him. He deserves it tbf

The chances of him going in January are very small indeed

I have to agree. He’s got unfinished business in the Europa Conference and that will keep him motivated until summer. I also think he’s one of our best, but you as evidenced by nature, new challenges grow and evolve the species. If he stays he’ll level off and perhaps drop…as Bobby did in those final seasons. Go with my best wishes young man, and thanks for the impending moment in the ECL…it’s coming home….

[hammers92]

Is he our best academy product ever? I think there’s a fair chance he may well be.